Provisional Ball Confusion

[Steven Rules]

Please note the SECOND line of my post

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see a second line.

 

[Slab]

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see a second line.

It was written in a white font for some reason

 

[Steven Rules]

Invisible ink!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Ex secret agent!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

There is no obligation under the Rules for a player to search for their ball. No unrelated party can take an action that starts the clock. The player can just carry on with the provisional. However, if a ball is found that may be the original before the provisional has become the ball in play, the player is obligated to identify if the ball is theirs.
The circumstance when the clock may be started without the player searching is a special case covered in the definition of Lost, the situation where a player is deliberately delaying the start of search to try to get an advantage. Absent that special situation, the clock doesn't start.

Hmmm. Something to ponder, if you wish
The player has hit a ball in an awful place. His provisional is on the fairway but” not nearer the hole etc”, but still in a good place that he’s eager to play it easily to the green.
The player doesn’t start a search ( he isn’t obliged to), so the clock doesn’t start, yes?
He plays the provisional ( 2nd hit) and it lands “nearer the hole etc”
So, that provisional ball is still not the ball in play until he plays it again, (3rd hit) but when he does, it will become the ball in play.
His opponent, in match play and ruthless, is looking for the “lost” ball, and is still looking whilst our player hits the provisional ball for the second time.
Being match play, Mr Ruthless opponent knows his ball is the next to be played, and until he does, the player shouldn’t make his 3rd hit of the provisional.
So, there is no clock and Mr Ruthless keeps on looking and looking.
Can he, keep on looking?
What happens next

it’s silly, I know, .Personally, if the player isn’t looking for his ball, then I wouldn’t be…but…still?…rule’s wise?

 

[bobmac]

It was written in a white font for some reason

View attachment 59382

Not much gets passed you.

 

[Slab]

Not much gets passed you.

My name wasn't always slab..

 

[Steven Rules]

So, there is no clock and Mr Ruthless keeps on looking and looking.
Can he, keep on looking?
What happens next

it’s silly, I know, .Personally, if the player isn’t looking for his ball, then I wouldn’t be…but…still?…rule’s wise?

18.3c(3) A player may ask others not to search for the original ball when the player would prefer to continue play with the provisional ball, but there is no obligation for them to comply.

18.3c(2)/2. Even if a player prefers to continue play of the hole with a provisional ball without searching for the original ball, the opponent or another player in stroke play may search for the player's original ball so long as it does not unreasonably delay play.

If it is the turn of Mr Ruthless to play, he must do so without unreasonable delay. Penalties for unreasonable delay are covered in Rule 5.6a.

 

[Old Colner]

Hmmm. Something to ponder, if you wish
The player has hit a ball in an awful place. His provisional is on the fairway but” not nearer the hole etc”, but still in a good place that he’s eager to play it easily to the green.
The player doesn’t start a search ( he isn’t obliged to), so the clock doesn’t start, yes?
He plays the provisional ( 2nd hit) and it lands “nearer the hole etc”
So, that provisional ball is still not the ball in play until he plays it again, (3rd hit) but when he does, it will become the ball in play.
His opponent, in match play and ruthless, is looking for the “lost” ball, and is still looking whilst our player hits the provisional ball for the second time.
Being match play, Mr Ruthless opponent knows his ball is the next to be played, and until he does, the player shouldn’t make his 3rd hit of the provisional.
So, there is no clock and Mr Ruthless keeps on looking and looking.
Can he, keep on looking?
What happens next

it’s silly, I know, .Personally, if the player isn’t looking for his ball, then I wouldn’t be…but…still?…rule’s wise?

Don't forget in you situation Mr. Ruthless is probably 2 shots better off as player A is 3 off the tee.

 

[doublebogey7]

18.3c(3) A player may ask others not to search for the original ball when the player would prefer to continue play with the provisional ball, but there is no obligation for them to comply.

18.3c(2)/2. Even if a player prefers to continue play of the hole with a provisional ball without searching for the original ball, the opponent or another player in stroke play may search for the player's original ball so long as it does not unreasonably delay play.

If it is the turn of Mr Ruthless to play, he must do so without unreasonable delay. Penalties for unreasonable delay are covered in Rule 5.6a.

All correct, but would add that if the opponent hits the privisional "out of turn" then that becomes their ball in play whether or not the player takes the option of recalling the shot.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry for my general mistakes…the truth is the clarifications etc others have provided I basically knew but just got stuff jumbled in trying to respond…maybe I’ll not bother in future…

One thing that I think I misunderstood was around the 3min rule. The implication of the clarifications is that an original ball can be searched for by a.n.other (not caddy, partner or partner caddy) without time limit - the only limit being that once my provisional is struck from a place past where the original is thought to lie the original is dead. This implies that if I wish to ignore my original I must get to my provisional and hit it as soon as possible…and this could mean me leaving other players with me to sort themselves without any help from me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just because the provisional landed nearer to the hole is immaterial. If the provisional is played then it becomes in play.

This is what I meant and was thinking when typing…