Compulsory Handicap to be shown on Scorecard

[Colin L]

The game is run by old people who don't use computers?? (Only kidding!)

No offence taken. I'm an old people who does use computers but I do have friends of the kind you mention.

 

[wjemather]

Our club hasnt taken a scorecard in since we resumed play last year.

Key score into App and check your pp's score is same as you think it is.

I wonder what will happen if we return to swapping and marking cards?

We started taking cards a couple of weeks ago and found that 18 months of not returning them seem to be enough for significant numbers to forget how to complete them correctly - missing handicaps, player signature and marker name (as still no card swapping) were common, but also names that require deciphering (e.g. "me", nicknames, or even nothing at all). As such I'd suggest you think about (re-)educating your members in preparation to avoid mass DQs.

Why would you?

Unless apps provide proper attestation (most do not) and all players are prepared to use them (they won't, and not just the older ones), apps will not replace a physical scorecard when the current relaxing of 3.3b ends.

 

[IanM]

No offence taken. I'm an old people who does use computers but I do have friends of the kind you mention.

Exceptions that prove the rule eh? I'm nearer 60 than 50, so there's a few on here that call me old

 

[jim8flog]

The game is run by old people who don't use computers?? (Only kidding!)

Sometimes the game is run by players who have used computers since they needed a building to house them but also fully understand technophobes of the same age

 

[bunkerblaster]

@bunkerblaster
Maybe you'd save a great deal of time and hassle by moving over to electronic scoring and let the computer systems do the work?

With your later comments in mind, many 75 to 85 year olds don`t do smartphones and even fewer do apps. We currently have no data input terminal in our clubhouse, all delayed by Covid. The cards are posted to Whatsapp by 4pm for the morning round and picked up by the handicapper for input later that evening. Come 4pm or even sooner, I am messaging and then ringing round for unsigned cards to be signed, blurred copies to be refocused, badly copied cards to be repositioned on the shot so eg a signature is showing. Only when I sit down to process the cards does the ISV software pick up handicap problems on the card. I then just apply the rules. See above posts for the situation, but in short one group (marker) put their CH in the PH box (and a few weeks ago there were a few groups/markers doing so) Another group only put their playing handicaps on the card in the PH box, so under Rule 3.3b they were scored off that handicap as a course handicap and each lost one stroke. The marker has appealed, and as I have already pointed out, if that appeal is upheld the group who put their CH in the PH will have to be retrospectively DQd for playing off handicaps higher than entitled.

 

[bunkerblaster]

So going back to the Clarifications posted by rulie, I would be grateful if a contributor would advise what England Golf`s position is on handicaps on scorecards. My understanding is that it is the Course Handicap which is the crucial number which should be shown on the card. As already discussed on other threads, I have been accepting an accurate CH even if posted in the wrong box. If the current appeal is upheld, I am expected to be a mind reader, which puts me in an impossible situation.

 

[wjemather]

So going back to the Clarifications posted by rulie, I would be grateful if a contributor would advise what England Golf`s position is on handicaps on scorecards. My understanding is that it is the Course Handicap which is the crucial number which should be shown on the card. As already discussed on other threads, I have been accepting an accurate CH even if posted in the wrong box. If the current appeal is upheld, I am expected to be a mind reader, which puts me in an impossible situation.

Per CONGU guidance, it is Course Handicap that is required, which should be accepted even if in the wrong box, as long as it is clear that is what it is.

 

[jim8flog]

So going back to the Clarifications posted by rulie, I would be grateful if a contributor would advise what England Golf`s position is on handicaps on scorecards. My understanding is that it is the Course Handicap which is the crucial number which should be shown on the card. As already discussed on other threads, I have been accepting an accurate CH even if posted in the wrong box. If the current appeal is upheld, I am expected to be a mind reader, which puts me in an impossible situation.

What is on the scorecard is the R&As domain not England Golf as it comes under the Rules of Golf.

The same Rule would apply to every area in the world that uses the R&A Rules.

 

[BubbaP]

So going back to the Clarifications posted by rulie, I would be grateful if a contributor would advise what England Golf`s position is on handicaps on scorecards. My understanding is that it is the Course Handicap which is the crucial number which should be shown on the card. As already discussed on other threads, I have been accepting an accurate CH even if posted in the wrong box. If the current appeal is upheld, I am expected to be a mind reader, which puts me in an impossible situation.

Could you expand on the mind reader comment?
I can't recall if you explained the type of competition, but if it is one where the gross scores are entered into computer software, and the software works out the placings then personally I'd have sympathy for the players. If it is clear who the player is, and the gross scores are correct, we live in a world where we expect admin to be looked after by tech etc.

 

[Colin L]

With your later comments in mind, many 75 to 85 year olds don`t do smartphones and even fewer do apps. We currently have no data input terminal in our clubhouse, all delayed by Covid. The cards are posted to Whatsapp by 4pm for the morning round and picked up by the handicapper for input later that evening. Come 4pm or even sooner, I am messaging and then ringing round for unsigned cards to be signed, blurred copies to be refocused, badly copied cards to be repositioned on the shot so eg a signature is showing. Only when I sit down to process the cards does the ISV software pick up handicap problems on the card. I then just apply the rules. See above posts for the situation, but in short one group (marker) put their CH in the PH box (and a few weeks ago there were a few groups/markers doing so) Another group only put their playing handicaps on the card in the PH box, so under Rule 3.3b they were scored off that handicap as a course handicap and each lost one stroke. The marker has appealed, and as I have already pointed out, if that appeal is upheld the group who put their CH in the PH will have to be retrospectively DQd for playing off handicaps higher than entitled.

Once you get your terminal on the go, I suggest you require players to return scores through the app or the clubhouse terminal and only if unable to do one or the other, post a card. The future is card free! Meanwhile, I sympathise fully having spent the last year and more inputting scores and sorting out problems.

 

[clubchamp98]

No offence taken. I'm an old people who does use computers but I do have friends of the kind you mention.

We have enough trouble doing our own score .
We can’t be doing anyone else’s ,
What if we get it wrong and he loses a comp.
WHS was supposed to make things easier. Apparently!

 

[rulefan]

WHS was supposed to make things easier. Apparently!

With an app or PSI no one has to do any arithmetic. Easier.

 

[bunkerblaster]

Per CONGU guidance, it is Course Handicap that is required, which should be accepted even if in the wrong box, as long as it is clear that is what it is.

wjemather, Thank you. I will not be involved in the appeal process as I made the original decision. If CONGU is the authority (and I am happy to accept it is) my original decision was incorrect. All three players in the group should be DQd on appeal because the CH was not shown on the card. The other three players who put the CH in the PH box, were correctly scored by me (as recorded on the card) because their CHs were on the scorecard albeit in the wrong boxes.

Thank you all for your input.

 

[Old Skier]

What is on the scorecard is the R&As domain not England Golf as it comes under the Rules of Golf.

The same Rule would apply to every area in the world that uses the R&A Rules.

Not quite as EG have been given the authority an this and some other matters. The WHS not quite being a WHS.

 

[rulie]

What is on the scorecard is the R&As domain not England Golf as it comes under the Rules of Golf.

The same Rule would apply to every area in the world that uses the R&A Rules.

Incorrect, as the ruling bodies (USGA and R&A) have given authority to the national associations (which includes England Golf?) to determine which handicap needs to be shown on the card. See post #2.

 

[rulefan]

Incorrect, as the ruling bodies (USGA and R&A) have given authority to the national associations (which includes England Golf?) to determine which handicap needs to be shown on the card. See post #2.

Yes. Each of the CONGU countries are National Associations in their own right. 1.3(iv)

 

[bunkerblaster]

Thank you, England Golf refer to "handicap must be shown on card" Clarification 1 : where no stipulation its Course Handicap to be shown on card. Congu Guidance on the Rules of Handicapping 1.4. Page 10 Para G21b/1 Handicap on Scorecard.

COURSE HANDICAP IT IS.

Thank you all for your input.

 

[berniethebolt]

Why do you need a handicap on the card at all? A long as the name is there the system knows the correct handicap.

 

[Old Skier]

Why do you need a handicap on the card at all? A long as the name is there the system knows the correct handicap.

I'd agree with you if people only put in the gross scores. The amount of people tell me that the system has their points or nett wrong is unbelievable.

 

[Colin L]

I'd agree with you if people only put in the gross scores. The amount of people tell me that the system has their points or nett wrong is unbelievable.

And how many of them were right?