Busted. A Cheat Caught

[clubchamp98]

I don't disagree. I think the issue was he was making up cards at another course so never actually played there and no-one knew he was doing it

Should be banned for life from having a handicap.
That’s not just cheating it’s on an industrial scale cheating.
Cheating mates is unforgivable.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Should be banned for life from having a handicap.
That’s not just cheating it’s on an industrial scale cheating.
Cheating mates is unforgivable.

Noting the strength of opinion on what should be done…I’ll simply note my view on forgiving and forgiveness (and those on here who know a bit about me will know where this view comes from).

Nothing is unforgivable…forgiveness need not mean excusing the behaviour or exonerating the miscreant of what he has done…it is to do with handing back ownership of the issue to the perpetrator; in many circumstances forgiveness opens the door for the individual to seek redemption; offer redress, and make amends to the injured party. That some might choose to not forgive, or indeed to accept any redress or other amends, is quite another matter.

 

[Orikoru]

Clearly some of your group were either maintaining vanity caps or simply aren’t as good as they/you think they are. If no one has gone down are they all “managing” their handicaps?

People need to stop comparing their handicap from prior to WHS to their WHS HI. It’s a different system.

Some of you must be very stressed when playing golf obsessing over everyone’s handicap. It can’t be good for your health.

Agree with this. The old system was designed to reflect you at your best or on a good day. In the new system, your index is simply a reflection of your recent form. Hence it moves around a lot more. I've finally begun to use the system the way they want us to this year - i.e. putting a card in for practically every round I play - and lo and behold, my handicap has gone up, despite arguably playing better than I was at the start of the year.

 

[Neilds]

Noting the strength of opinion on what should be done…I’ll simply note my view on forgiving and forgiveness (and those on here who know a bit about me will know where this view comes from).

Nothing is unforgivable…forgiveness need not mean excusing the behaviour or exonerating the miscreant of what he has done…it is to do with handing back ownership of the issue to the perpetrator; in many circumstances forgiveness opens the door for the individual to seek redemption; offer redress, and make amends to the injured party. That some might choose to not forgive, or indeed to accept any redress or other amends, is quite another matter.

I agree with what you say, but what has the offender done to show remorse and actually atone for his actions? Has he stood in front of the various groups and apologised? Has he offered to reimburse them in some way, either financially or with a gift? if not, then I would not be able to start on the forgiveness route until he took control of his remorse.

 

[PJ87]

Should be banned for life from having a handicap.
That’s not just cheating it’s on an industrial scale cheating.
Cheating mates is unforgivable.

I'd just ban him from comps for life.

Let him have access to the club, let swindles make their mind up if they trust him or not.

But end of day it's just golf. Let him play, if people want to play with him crack on..however don't allow him access to comps so he can't cheat others

 

[garyinderry]

I don't disagree. I think the issue was he was making up cards at another course so never actually played there and no-one knew he was doing it

My point is that I play with the same group by and large all the time. Around 10 of us on a regular basis. I then have a few others like my brothers and nephew on golf ireland as friends. Just by doing this we are all in a way keeping an eye (policing) each others handicaps. On any given Saturday, if I played or not, I would check the scores to see who did well or who had a stinker.
What I'm saying is if you are playing with random people all the time. This is less likely to happen and guys like this clown can operate under a cloak of anonymity.

 

[RichA]

Should be banned for life from having a handicap.
That’s not just cheating it’s on an industrial scale cheating.
Cheating mates is unforgivable.

We don't know all the facts. Even the person providing the facts that we have doesn't know all the facts.

At all of our clubs there will be people we play golf with who have drink driving convictions. Drink driving is inarguably more serious than handicap manipulation yet society and the law deem a 12 month disqualification from driving to be proportionate for most of them.

There needs to be a sanction for cheating, but a lifetime ban from competitive golf is not proportionate. Even pro golfers would only get a warning or temporary suspension for cheating.
The stigma that will follow this guy around will be worse than any official sanction anyway.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

When I was talking to one of the guys yesterday. He told me of a game he played with the captain at a course in Essex. He was in a fourball and two guys were looking for a ball in the rough. The captain smacked a ball and it went into a bunker. The guy who was telling me went into his pre shot routine and heard another ball hit. He looked up and the captain had played another ball. He thought it odd as he knew the first ball was not lost. The other two had not seen anything as they were stilll looking for a ball.As they walked down the course they passed the ball in the bunker and the guy said to the captain “ that’s your ball”. The captain walked into the bunker, picked up the ball and said “ that’s not mine”. And walked to his second ball. He was gobsmacked. He told the guys in the 19th after, and a few had already got suspicions about his cheating. Within a couple of months he had left. No one would play in the roll ups with him. If it was a drawn comp people would pull out. He got the message he was not welcome and somehow he had made club captain.
After he had gone a couple of players did a bit of digging because he had not been at the club for years and years. It transpired that he had left a couple of other clubs for similar reasons. Cheating.

That exact scenario happened at my old club some years ago - how this guy ever became Captain was unknown as he was a notorious cheat. When he was proven to have done this in a Captain/Pro challenge, the other three players just walked off the course and left him. He was out of the club a month after his captaincy ended.

 

[clubchamp98]

Noting the strength of opinion on what should be done…I’ll simply note my view on forgiving and forgiveness (and those on here who know a bit about me will know where this view comes from).

Nothing is unforgivable…forgiveness need not mean excusing the behaviour or exonerating the miscreant of what he has done…it is to do with handing back ownership of the issue to the perpetrator; in many circumstances forgiveness opens the door for the individual to seek redemption; offer redress, and make amends to the injured party. That some might choose to not forgive, or indeed to accept any redress or other amends, is quite another matter.

Yes but he will still be playing in the sweep for money. ( the main cause of cheating imo)

If he plays well and wins he will be questioned
If he plays poorly he will be questioned.
No win situation for him and anyone he plays with.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Yes but he will still be playing in the sweep for money. ( the main cause of cheating imo)

If he plays well and wins he will be questioned
If he plays poorly he will be questioned.
No win situation for him and anyone he plays with.

My Saturday sweep and the other Saturday/Sunday one he played in don't anything to do with him

 

[clubchamp98]

We don't know all the facts. Even the person providing the facts that we have doesn't know all the facts.

At all of our clubs there will be people we play golf with who have drink driving convictions. Drink driving is inarguably more serious than handicap manipulation yet society and the law deem a 12 month disqualification from driving to be proportionate for most of them.

There needs to be a sanction for cheating, but a lifetime ban from competitive golf is not proportionate. Even pro golfers would only get a warning or temporary suspension for cheating.
The stigma that will follow this guy around will be worse than any official sanction anyway.

We’re commenting on the facts we know
I agree it could change opinion if we hear the other side but dought it.

Drink driving should be a year ban for first offence.
If you do it again I would take the licence away permanently no excuses.

But people need to drive for work ,kids ,parents etc so might think twice.

But nobody needs to play golf and cheating your mates out of money is a big no no.

 

[clubchamp98]

My Saturday sweep and the other Saturday/Sunday one he played in don't anything to do with him

I don’t blame you.
So if banned from comps by the club he dosnt need a handicap.
Unless he goes in opens and cheats strangers.

 

[evemccc]

I’m very far from a scratch golfer (so I’ve no skin in the game) but wouldn’t it be simpler, to do away with handicaps altogether, and have golfers declare who ‘won’ by nothing more than whoever shot the lowest score gross in Strokeplay, and play scratch matchplay golf!?

Beginners and high handicaps could still play a round and spend a convivial few hours playing a shared passion with scratch and +handicap golfers, so that wouldn’t change

But the ridiculous cheating, handicap manipulation, vanity handicaps and claims of banditry (whether banter or not) would all but disappear

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I’m very far from a scratch golfer (so I’ve no skin in the game) but wouldn’t it be simpler, to do away with handicaps altogether, and have golfers declare who ‘won’ by nothing more than whoever shot the lowest score gross in Strokeplay, and play scratch matchplay golf!?

Beginners and high handicaps could still play a round and spend a convivial few hours playing a shared passion with scratch and +handicap golfers, so that wouldn’t change

But the ridiculous cheating, handicap manipulation, vanity handicaps and claims of banditry (whether banter or not) would all but disappear

That would just kill all amateur golf comps

Whilst there will always be people manipulating handicaps the level is still very small and the majority are still being genuine

 

[sunshine]

People need to stop comparing their handicap from prior to WHS to their WHS HI. It’s a different system.

Exactly. The handicap measures different things.

old system = potential. Handicap adjustments were asymetrical to recognise that if you were going through a bad patch of form, you still had the potential to discover some form and shoot a good score.

new system = form, therefore it is more volatile.

 

[clubchamp98]

I’m very far from a scratch golfer (so I’ve no skin in the game) but wouldn’t it be simpler, to do away with handicaps altogether, and have golfers declare who ‘won’ by nothing more than whoever shot the lowest score gross in Strokeplay, and play scratch matchplay golf!?

Beginners and high handicaps could still play a round and spend a convivial few hours playing a shared passion with scratch and +handicap golfers, so that wouldn’t change

But the ridiculous cheating, handicap manipulation, vanity handicaps and claims of banditry (whether banter or not) would all but disappear

Only two people at ours would win everything.

We would have nothing to moan about as well

 

[evemccc]

That would just kill all amateur golf comps

Whilst there will always be people manipulating handicaps the level is still very small and the majority are still being genuine

…in your opinion


Why haven’t other sports taken up something akin to a handicap system at amateur level — tennis, badminton, squash, football, rugby, whatever you want to name, golf is alone in this..

Would you not play golf, and would the appeal of golf not be there for you, without handicapped golf comps?!

I literally wouldn’t care if all comps were based on gross scoring. I play in as many comps as I can, gross and handicapped, but the appeal of golf for me has nothing to do with attempting to ‘win’ a nett comp

 

[Pants]

Why haven’t other sports taken up something akin to a handicap system at amateur level — tennis, badminton, squash, football, rugby, whatever you want to name, golf is alone in this..

Many do

 

[Arthur Wedge]

…in your opinion


Why haven’t other sports taken up something akin to a handicap system at amateur level — tennis, badminton, squash, football, rugby, whatever you want to name, golf is alone in this..

They have - it’s called leagues and a pyramid structure

Within other areas of sport you play against players of “similar” ability

I’ll use hockey as an example - it has normally 4 or 5 different level teams and each team will play in the league for their level

Would you not play golf, and would the appeal of golf not be there for you, without handicapped golf comps?!

People would still play golf but they would bring in their own handicaps etc

Club comps would just die away

I literally wouldn’t care if all comps were based on gross scoring. I play in as many comps as I can, gross and handicapped, but the appeal of golf for me has nothing to do with attempting to ‘win’ a nett comp

You wouldn’t care - many others would

The handicap system is one of the best things about the sport

People from a plus handicap can play alongside someone with a 20 plus HC

 

[rulefan]

Why haven’t other sports taken up something akin to a handicap system at amateur level — tennis, badminton, squash, football, rugby, whatever you want to name, golf is alone in this..

I have played both tennis and squash with handicaps but the problem was that the player who never hit the ball out of court always won, regardless of the difference in handicaps.