Busted. A Cheat Caught

[Backache]

When I was talking to one of the guys yesterday. He told me of a game he played with the captain at a course in Essex. He was in a fourball and two guys were looking for a ball in the rough. The captain smacked a ball and it went into a bunker. The guy who was telling me went into his pre shot routine and heard another ball hit. He looked up and the captain had played another ball. He thought it odd as he knew the first ball was not lost. The other two had not seen anything as they were stilll looking for a ball.As they walked down the course they passed the ball in the bunker and the guy said to the captain “ that’s your ball”. The captain walked into the bunker, picked up the ball and said “ that’s not mine”. And walked to his second ball. He was gobsmacked. He told the guys in the 19th after, and a few had already got suspicions about his cheating. Within a couple of months he had left. No one would play in the roll ups with him. If it was a drawn comp people would pull out. He got the message he was not welcome and somehow he had made club captain.
After he had gone a couple of players did a bit of digging because he had not been at the club for years and years. It transpired that he had left a couple of other clubs for similar reasons. Cheating.

I'm certainly not condoning any form of cheating and in the case on this thread it was clearly premeditated but I don't necessarily think all cheats are the same some may be recurrent , for others it may be a single time when they are in a low point in their life or whatever and may come to play respectable honourable golf again. It certainly pays to be circumspect but I certainly don't disagree with giving someone another chance.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm certainly not condoning any form of cheating and in the case on this thread it was clearly premeditated but I don't necessarily think all cheats are the same some may be recurrent , for others it may be a single time when they are in a low point in their life or whatever and may come to play respectable honourable golf again. It certainly pays to be circumspect but I certainly don't disagree with giving someone another chance.

Definitely understand your sentiments. However for a lot of people its "once a cheat, always a cheat" and in their mind it is black and white. I guess to a certain degree it's like prisoners coming out of jail and trying to re-integrate into a law abiding way of life and finding it hard with jobs etc and people always view them with that "prisoner" tag

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It may be a case of not wanting to pass the mess to another club by forcing him out. They might hope peer group pressure will do that anyway and if he does stay he'll find it impossible to do anything golfing wise without the cheat tag and as someone that has always played matches and competitions he'll find that hard if people are refusing to play with him. I am wondering where this comes in a disciplinary sense. Is it gross misconduct? Assume so. I know we have had cheats caught before and they weren't chucked out so maybe they are thinking they have set precedents. I know the club won't release any information about any sanctions and I wouldn't expect them to (other than the handicap ban, which we all saw as his handicap is N/A on the club app) as its a personal matter same as a workplace incident. Anything would be conjecture and unless he told somebody directly I wouldn't take it at face value

Well now the whole World knows…

 

[Backache]

Definitely understand your sentiments. However for a lot of people its "once a cheat, always a cheat" and in their mind it is black and white. I guess to a certain degree it's like prisoners coming out of jail and trying to re-integrate into a law abiding way of life and finding it hard with jobs etc and people always view them with that "prisoner" tag

Yup, my sympathies lie with those who have been cheated and I understand their anger and there certainly should be some punishment . But on an overall view I don't think someone should necessarily pay the price for a single act for the rest of their life golfing or otherwise.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well now the whole World knows…

Talking about what sanctions and disciplinary action taken. That hasn't been released (aside the handicap ban). The action itself is definitely common knowledge within the club and I know it had been shared by others elsewhere

 

[HampshireHog]

He has had his handicap withdrawn hasn’t he? This means he is effectively banned from competitions which is at least a sanction, albeit minor.

That’s an EG sanction, I would expect that the club would have their own disciplinary procedures and sanctions.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

He has had his handicap withdrawn hasn’t he? This means he is effectively banned from competitions which is at least a sanction, albeit minor.

Think only EG ( or maybe county ) can withdraw someone’s HC

 

[NearHull]

Think only EG ( or maybe county ) can withdraw someone’s HC

Any Handicap, Competition, Chair, Manager who has Admin rights can do it. I’ve done it to one of our players for three months.
We suspend handicaps for none payment of subscription as well - it works wonders.

 

[Tashyboy]

That’s an EG sanction, I would expect that the club would have their own disciplinary procedures and sanctions.

OOI, could England golf not ban him from putting in scores. Initially the problem occurred through using there app. What’s to stop him from doing it in the future.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

OOI, could England golf not ban him from putting in scores. Initially the problem occurred through using there app. What’s to stop him from doing it in the future.

Good point. Short answer is I don't know but doubt it. Handicaps are a club (and county) issue

 

[D-S]

OOI, could England golf not ban him from putting in scores. Initially the problem occurred through using there app. What’s to stop him from doing it in the future.

He, of course can do it in future, but as most people who are suspected of being cheats or are cheats, he will be under much greater scrutiny by the handicap committee and if needed a note can be put on his record to alert future handicap committees.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

He, of course can do it in future, but as most people who are suspected of being cheats or are cheats, he will be under much greater scrutiny by the handicap committee and if needed a note can be put on his record to alert future handicap committees.

Not sure he'll get too many people wanting to approve the card online or sign a physical card. Not too many in the roll ups queueing to play with him

 

[clubchamp98]

This sort of thing has been coming for a while.
The app is just a cheats charter and anyone using it to cheat and inflate or reduce their handicap should be treated with harsh penalties imo.
It was only a matter of time and I wonder how many others are doing the same.
A harsh penalty May just put them off but leniency will just show it’s not taken to seriously by clubs but members usually take great umbridge with cheating scumbags.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

This sort of thing has been coming for a while.
The app is just a cheats charter and anyone using it to cheat and inflate or reduce their handicap should be treated with harsh penalties imo.
It was only a matter of time and I wonder how many others are doing the same.
A harsh penalty May just put them off but leniency will just show it’s not taken to seriously by clubs but members usually take great umbridge with cheating scumbags.

A system that facilitates handicaps going up at all, without good reason, is at the heart of the issue. I realise that we are talking about one chap behaving badly but this situation is made possible by WHS and many are behaving reasonably and getting the same results.

I am involved in a group of about 20 golfers, between handicap 2 and 12 before WHS, and some have gone up by 6 shots since WHS. Some have remained the same and none have gone down. I'd say none of them have gotten any worse at golf. The ones that have gone up the most are just a little more rubbish when they're not on their game. When the less rubbish guys look at the situation they feel as though they are being penalised for not being rubbish enough when playing badly.

The long-term effect is that they'll eventually realise they should let their bad stuff be rubbish.

WHS needs a fix to stop this.

 

[clubchamp98]

A system that facilitates handicaps going up at all, without good reason, is at the heart of the issue. I realise that we are talking about one chap behaving badly but this situation is made possible by WHS and many are behaving reasonably and getting the same results.

I am involved in a group of about 20 golfers, between handicap 2 and 12 before WHS, and some have gone up by 6 shots since WHS. Some have remained the same and none have gone down. I'd say none of them have gotten any worse at golf. The ones that have gone up the most are just a little more rubbish when they're not on their game. When the less rubbish guys look at the situation they feel as though they are being penalised for not being rubbish enough when playing badly.

The long-term effect is that they'll eventually realise they should let their bad stuff be rubbish.

WHS needs a fix to stop this.

One GP card a week should sort it out.
That’s still 52 cards in a year though

 

[C7usk]

One GP card a week should sort it out.
That’s still 52 cards in a year though

I wish I could get 52 cards in... Put in 32 scores this year and around 20 are GP cards.
First hcp counting score was recorded 28th April and last counting was last weekend.
Imagine it'll be April again before course will be back to playable for hcp purposes... The joys of parkland golf in Scotland.

 

[rulie]

A system that facilitates handicaps going up at all, without good reason, is at the heart of the issue. I realise that we are talking about one chap behaving badly but this situation is made possible by WHS and many are behaving reasonably and getting the same results.

I am involved in a group of about 20 golfers, between handicap 2 and 12 before WHS, and some have gone up by 6 shots since WHS. Some have remained the same and none have gone down. I'd say none of them have gotten any worse at golf. The ones that have gone up the most are just a little more rubbish when they're not on their game. When the less rubbish guys look at the situation they feel as though they are being penalised for not being rubbish enough when playing badly.

The long-term effect is that they'll eventually realise they should let their bad stuff be rubbish.

WHS needs a fix to stop this.

Isn't "rubbish" sorted with net double bogey?
Maybe those that have "gone up" since WHS were those whose justified upward movement had been constrained by the 0.1 "rule" and their current handicap is reflecting their ability?

 

[Neilds]

Isn't "rubbish" sorted with net double bogey?
Maybe those that have "gone up" since WHS were those whose justified upward movement had been constrained by the 0.1 "rule" and their current handicap is reflecting their ability?

Stop it with the sensible comments! There is a conspiracy going on here and nothing should get in the way

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Apparently the chap in question sent a grovelling message on the whatsapp group of a midweek roll up he was involved in and the captain replied with a so it smacks of him getting off lightly with them. Whether that increases the pressure on other groups to accept this and let him back remains to be seen. Consensus from the weekend groups is he will continue to be given short shrift and he has conned his "mates" out of cash

 

[Slab]

Apparently the chap in question sent a grovelling message on the whatsapp group of a midweek roll up he was involved in and the captain replied with a so it smacks of him getting off lightly with them. Whether that increases the pressure on other groups to accept this and let him back remains to be seen. Consensus from the weekend groups is he will continue to be given short shrift and he has conned his "mates" out of cash

The club Captain !