wjemather
Well-known member
There is a clear difference. The former is almost always due to lack of knowledge and remedied by education; no-one has ever mistakenly thought that the latter is acceptable.
Busted. A Cheat Caught
- Thread starter HomerJSimpson
- Start date
Canfordhacker
Q-School Graduate
You only have to look at cycling and athletics to see a well established cycle of regime/rules evolving, the cheats finding ways to push things and the establishment responding. To my mind this is more of that cycle - I think the establishment will respond, especially with AI to start looking at patterns to supplement hard pushed hc committees who may not always have the experience or time.
To my mind it would be very apparent if one of my circle was doing this, even through conversations - "oh I see you are playing a lot at xxx, what's it like, be good to join you sometime, who you playing with, is there room". I often look at people's EG record when they win comps, and there is always someone who knows them to ask and have a conversation - lessons, just retired and playing more, health issues etc etc.
To my mind it would be very apparent if one of my circle was doing this, even through conversations - "oh I see you are playing a lot at xxx, what's it like, be good to join you sometime, who you playing with, is there room". I often look at people's EG record when they win comps, and there is always someone who knows them to ask and have a conversation - lessons, just retired and playing more, health issues etc etc.
D-S
Well-known member
I think this is more easily done with clubs that have a relatively steady membership but some clubs have a very transient membership or very large numbers so it is nigh on impossible to find the 'someone' as in "there is always someone who knows them to ask and have a conversation'.
We have some clubs here with over a thousand members so tracking them and building up a picture is very difficult. As you rightly say additional support in terms of reporting, highlighting and alerting committees would go a long way to help.
How on earth they manage 46,000 plus iGolfers I really do not know.
upsidedown
Tour Winner
Have the club given a reason why he's not been expelled. We expelled a member for cheating over 10 years ago and had to have a conversation with another one who was caught but he chose to leave anyway.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Not to me and if they had the conversation wit the group he played in they haven't divulged and don't feel the need to really push the question. I won't play with him again and I don't think many more so that is enough for me. If he can find someone prepared to play with him especially in competitions then its down to them. If they know it is a question for their conscience and integrity and if they don't know I don't feel it would be my place to tell them
TigerTime
Active member
And there was my e-mailing Scottish Golf previously to get them to correct my 6 to an 8 as I had forgot to add the 2 on for 3 off the tee 
I'm not sure what the difference is in the apps across the home nations - but in the SG golf app you can literally type someones name into the box for them to sign. To be honest, based on what I've seen over the last couple of years - people cheating is more common than one thinks.
I once played an open with some randoms, who were all quite boisterous and bigger than me, who were giving themselves anything up to 3/4ft of putts, even if they missed them (they would write down 4 instead of 5 on missed short putts a few times) Naïve of me, I didn't say anything due to the fear of causing a scene. They weren't cheating to win but certainly to protect their handicaps.
I'm not sure what the difference is in the apps across the home nations - but in the SG golf app you can literally type someones name into the box for them to sign. To be honest, based on what I've seen over the last couple of years - people cheating is more common than one thinks.
I once played an open with some randoms, who were all quite boisterous and bigger than me, who were giving themselves anything up to 3/4ft of putts, even if they missed them (they would write down 4 instead of 5 on missed short putts a few times) Naïve of me, I didn't say anything due to the fear of causing a scene. They weren't cheating to win but certainly to protect their handicaps.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
...and tested it I have.It is something that I intend to test.
Without leaving my office at home, I have this morning...
Registered a scoring intent at a course close by to me
Entered a fictitious score into the app.
2 hours later I sent it off to my "mate" who has an iPlay account for approval
I then logged out of my MyEG account and into my "mates" iPlay account
My "mate" then attested my score.
Tomorrow I'm getting cut from 9.6 to 9.5.
All I had to do when selecting my attester was to search under iPlay when the MyEG app wanted a club name....then type the name/iPlay number in of my mate.
Without involving any third party I am now completely free to manipulate my handicap as I see fit. Madness - but EG make it possible.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Exactly and by roping in unsuspecting attesters this guy was free to add scores as he saw fit.
Steve Wilkes
Well-known member
I think this is one of the benefits of WHS, cause it seems like this guy was nowhere near a 5 handicap if only a few years later he can't break 90
LincolnShep
Head Pro
Is your 'mate' called Dick Navis? I sincerely hope so.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
a 0.1 cut was disappointing....i shot 9 bogies and only 2 birdies...should have done better but to be fair it was the first time I'd ever played the course.Is your 'mate' called Dick Navis? I sincerely hope so.
D-S
Well-known member
A decent handicap committee could/would have sorted this out over this time frame - if he wasn’t in the buffer zone 7 times in a row (which he probably would have been moving from 5 to 13) the committee would have been prompted to possibly increase him by a shot each time, plus the three annual reviews.
sunshine
Well-known member
The GM just needs to fabricate some GP cards to get his handicap back down to where he wants it. Sounds like you’d be happy to attest
D-S
Well-known member
That is a scary loophole as you could create a few iPlay accounts so the scores would look as if they’ve been attested by different people.
Springveldt
Well-known member
Another couple of years and you could clean up on the Opens circuit.I've gone from 11 to 15 this year just by being rubbish
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
So it can be done....are there any checks that can be done to stop this..? There's no reason to suggest that the round didn't take place so no reason to check..
A series of small increases or decreases could have a dramatic effect on the number of shots if done over a long enough time frame..
With different attesters it wouldn't be easy to pick it up.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
Yep I've already signed up D.Trump, T.Woods and K. Jong-Il to iPlay with me in my next fourball.
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3 jabber
Active member
Just make one up
nickjdavis
Head Pro
It simply does not stand out in my handicap record as being anything unusual (apart from the scarcity of other GP scores on my record) or a simple report as to what GP scores have been. Although I have no history of playing St.Clements it would be natural to assume that I might have just popped out for a round as it is a ten minute walk from my home. It doesnt stand out in a GP report that the handicap secretary might run. The only things that our h'cap secretary might spot is the timings (highlighted in red) from when the scorecard was downloaded to when the score was submitted...2hrs and 1 minute (but if i was doing this for real i wouldnt be that silly).
There is nothing here that one single round would raise an alarm for. Yes if i started throwing in GP cards left right and center then Big Ben would start ringing...but being sensible and not bringing attention to myself would not be difficult. Even more so next year, when I plan to retire and will have more time on my hands and might naturally play more golf, of which GP might be a larger proportion.
