Busted. A Cheat Caught

[Arthur Wedge]

Not really a crazy increase. You could go off the boil and have that in a very short space of time.

Yep seen it with a few people , players going form 1 to 5 , or 6 to 10 etc

 

[Slab]

Sorry I misread. Agreed, it has facilitated cheating. There have always been people with a question mark over their behaviour, it’s harder for them to do this in person unless they play with the same group every week. The app has encouraged a form of digital manipulation of handicaps

And with advances in technology the game of golf was never gonna stay as a paper/pencil based recording system

And if it takes an iteration or two for the powers to realise what kind of cheating they're up against then so be it I guess. No digital system is working off v1.1

 

[AussieKB]

Played with an English GM who was off 12, WHS came along and he is now off 20 and it is a joke and even he is embarrassed at times, so once I gave him 8 shots and had a chance, now with giving him 16 shots is just crazy.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As I said before, this chap would have got away with it if he didn't own up I expect.

Had the losing finalist not voiced his concern and a past captain who is an expert on the new system got involved it wouldn't have been checked. Once the records were looked at the anomalies stuck out and were further questioned and he held his hands up once he realised he had been found out. If not I reckon he'd have kept doing it especially to go up over the winter

 

[garyinderry]

Yep seen it with a few people , players going form 1 to 5 , or 6 to 10 etc

I have a mate who was off 5 in the old system. He's currently off 12.9 and hasn't broken 90 in the last 6 rounds.

If he actually got back to playing half decent golf he would clean up. He just doesn't really care anymore and hardly even plays.

 

[Orikoru]

Had the losing finalist not voiced his concern and a past captain who is an expert on the new system got involved it wouldn't have been checked. Once the records were looked at the anomalies stuck out and were further questioned and he held his hands up once he realised he had been found out. If not I reckon he'd have kept doing it especially to go up over the winter

I still don't see how they would have proved anything if he didn't own up. He claims they are real scores, the attester backs him up and says he signed it off legitimately - what then? Nowhere to go is there?

 

[Bdill93]

I still don't see how they would have proved anything if he didn't own up. He claims they are real scores, the attester backs him up and says he signed it off legitimately - what then? Nowhere to go is there?

Proof of tee times booked would be my next step, questioning why one golfer wasn't also submitting a card on the day when the other was on multiple occasions... (I know non-compulsory but even still)

 

[Orikoru]

Proof of tee times booked would be my next step, questioning why one golfer wasn't also submitting a card on the day when the other was on multiple occasions... (I know non-compulsory but even still)

Seems pretty circumstantial when he could say he just turned up without booking and they had a slot available.

 

[Leftitshort]

I still don't see how they would have proved anything if he didn't own up. He claims they are real scores, the attester backs him up and says he signed it off legitimately - what then? Nowhere to go is there

Agreed. There has to be more to it

 

[Old Colner]

I still don't see how they would have proved anything if he didn't own up. He claims they are real scores, the attester backs him up and says he signed it off legitimately - what then? Nowhere to go is there?

Is it possibly, that nowadays you need to sign in at the club to play, so no record of any bookings on said dates from this chap or did he use the away course because they do not use pre booking.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I still don't see how they would have proved anything if he didn't own up. He claims they are real scores, the attester backs him up and says he signed it off legitimately - what then? Nowhere to go is there?

As far as I know from those that are closer to him, the club were made aware of the quick rise, the cards at other places which often had a run of holes played and not scored and some even not played (although not sure how it can then count) and they asked him about all the discrepancies and he admitted he had fabricated scores and got people to attest the card. Not sure what else there is people are look for. He cheated. He got caught

 

[Orikoru]

As far as I know from those that are closer to him, the club were made aware of the quick rise, the cards at other places which often had a run of holes played and not scored and some even not played (although not sure how it can then count) and they asked him about all the discrepancies and he admitted he had fabricated scores and got people to attest the card. Not sure what else there is people are look for. He cheated. He got caught

Sorry, my point was not to question whether he cheated or not. I am talking about the wider issue of how easy it is to cheat in the current system and not get caught. Without him owning up there'd have been no solid proof whatsoever. Ergo there are probably countless people who are getting away with it.

 

[Leftitshort]

Sorry, my point was not to question whether he cheated or not. I am talking about the wider issue of how easy it is to cheat in the current system and not get caught. Without him owning up there'd have been no solid proof whatsoever. Ergo there are probably countless people who are getting away with it.

They are, I can name at least 2 at my place. Shoot a nett 63 in a board comp. Get cut, then thrown in 5-6 midweek comp scores with their mates where they struggle to break nett 80. Handicap goes up, cycle begins again

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sorry, my point was not to question whether he cheated or not. I am talking about the wider issue of how easy it is to cheat in the current system and not get caught. Without him owning up there'd have been no solid proof whatsoever. Ergo there are probably countless people who are getting away with it.

No problem but I agree there are many that are doing it and I would argue especially before open competitions with decent prizes on offer and then shooting a 43 point round to be amongst the prizes. Get the cut and start again

 

[MACM85]

I would imagine it will be very hard for the chap in question to carry on at the club and participate in any competition without comments and possible judgement coming their way for any future win.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I would imagine it will be very hard for the chap in question to carry on at the club and participate in any competition without comments and possible judgement coming their way for any future win.

I agree. I think the majority of the roll up group were surprised he was there and playing on Sunday. A lot of members have already been vocal on not wanting to play with him in comps

 

[harpo_72]

As far as I know from those that are closer to him, the club were made aware of the quick rise, the cards at other places which often had a run of holes played and not scored and some even not played (although not sure how it can then count) and they asked him about all the discrepancies and he admitted he had fabricated scores and got people to attest the card. Not sure what else there is people are look for. He cheated. He got caught

So if he hadn’t of folded no one would be the wiser .. he could have countered that he was being bullied because he had a good round at the club.

I think through all of this it’s been proven the system is pretty vulnerable. I appreciate it’s a dynamic system and I know that my clubs preventative measures are to only allow entry to prizes if you have 6 or more scores in your list 20 that have been in competition.. so GPs only mean your not legible for a prize only a mention.
Not sure how that works successfully but theoretically it seems to be a good solution to this problem.

 

[Backache]

Not at all. What I am trying to say is that, contrary to some views on here, WHS has not made people cheat. It may have allowed those people who were not the most honest in the first place to act on their cheating tendencies, but it has not created cheats. Same as self service checkouts do not make people shoplift, but does make it easier for those who are a little light fingered to get a bit of five fingered discount.

The world is not divided into cheats and honest people tit elides between the two and the new system facilitates cheating .
If I took a poll of everyone on the forum and asked if they were law abiding I bet a large majority would answer yes . If I further asked if anyone who drove had disobeyed the speed limit in the last 10 years the split would be between law breakers and liars.

 

[wjemather]

No problem but I agree there are many that are doing it and I would argue especially before open competitions with decent prizes on offer and then shooting a 43 point round to be amongst the prizes. Get the cut and start again

To stand a half decent chance of scoring 43 points on demand in a specific competition, a handicap of 10 (or more) above true ability would be required.

Such egregious manipulation goes way beyond knocking out a couple of low counting scores to get one or two more shots, and should be detected quite easily.

If there is anything untoward going on in these competitions (and usually there isn't), it's far more likely to be other forms of cheating or simply bogus scores.

 

[woofers]

The world is not divided into cheats and honest people tit elides between the two and the new system facilitates cheating .
If I took a poll of everyone on the forum and asked if they were law abiding I bet a large majority would answer yes . If I further asked if anyone who drove had disobeyed the speed limit in the last 10 years the split would be between law breakers and liars.

Agreed, although we are getting into thread creep (no surprise), he is cheating the system because he can, it allows it.
Is someone who submits a qualifying score from a Pro Am ‘best 2 of 4’, or 4BBB a cheat? Not to same extent of someone fabricating scores but there is no distinction in the system when the scores are accounted for.