Alterations to WHS?

[clubchamp98]

Is 135 the slope? That is pretty high. Remember, that is only the relative difficulty for a bogey player as opposed to a scratch player. It is not an actual difficulty measure

I would expect 6300 would very approximately have a CR of 69/70ish

71.1 135 ,6242 yds El Campion at Mission Inn
possibly the hardest test of golf I have ever encountered in 40yrs.

Incredible golf course .
Enjoyable but very frustrating at the same time.
If you get out of position it’s chip out and start again.

 

[Voyager EMH]

71.1 135 ,6242 yds El Campion at Mission Inn
possibly the hardest test of golf I have ever encountered in 40yrs.

Incredible golf course .
Enjoyable but very frustrating at the same time.
If you get out of position it’s chip out and start again.

Very comparable numbers with my home course 70.8 / 132 / 6257 yards.

 

[clubchamp98]

Very comparable numbers with my home course 70.8 / 132 / 6257 yards.

Yes but have you get any Bermuda grass that’s the problem.

 

[sweaty sock]

"World" handicap its supposed to be, it can never be.

British people learn and play a game with tiny greens, short rough, windy, short course length, with short sharp slopes, bling tee shots and local knowledge.

We'll never do as well on long forced carry all through the air deep rough, and wide flat fairways, and similarly, the hordes of US tourists get their back sides kicked by 2500 yard 9 holers on obscure islands...

Theres no such thing as a world player, so a world handicap is asking too much.

Whats annoying, is that the grown ups seem to think it is, and we find ourselves here, trying to compare the difference of courses we play everyday, to courses we cant even comprehend, against players who've never played anything different.

Its asking too much. It shouldnt even try

 

[Alan Clifford]

"World" handicap its supposed to be, it can never be.

British people learn and play a game with tiny greens, short rough, windy, short course length, with short sharp slopes, bling tee shots and local knowledge.

We'll never do as well on long forced carry all through the air deep rough, and wide flat fairways, and similarly, the hordes of US tourists get their back sides kicked by 2500 yard 9 holers on obscure islands...

Theres no such thing as a world player, so a world handicap is asking too much.

Whats annoying, is that the grown ups seem to think it is, and we find ourselves here, trying to compare the difference of courses we play everyday, to courses we cant even comprehend, against players who've never played anything different.

Its asking too much. It shouldnt even try

Defeatist.

 

[rulefan]

"World" handicap its supposed to be, it can never be.

British people learn and play a game with tiny greens, short rough, windy, short course length, with short sharp slopes, bling tee shots and local knowledge.

We'll never do as well on long forced carry all through the air deep rough, and wide flat fairways, and similarly, the hordes of US tourists get their back sides kicked by 2500 yard 9 holers on obscure islands...

Theres no such thing as a world player, so a world handicap is asking too much.

Whats annoying, is that the grown ups seem to think it is, and we find ourselves here, trying to compare the difference of courses we play everyday, to courses we cant even comprehend, against players who've never played anything different.

Its asking too much. It shouldnt even try

Should we have handicaps that are for a continent, country, county, club?

Incidentally, all the issues that you listed above are dealt with in the rating manual.

 

[clubchamp98]

Defeatist.

Or realist?
even some pros struggle with different grasses in their own country.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I think rulie knows this, it's rubbish, different handicaps at different courses is a nonsense

This is how pathetic this forum has become, someone complained to the moderators that the highlighted word was originally

 

[AussieKB]

In my last 6 games I have played off scratch off 4, 3, 0, 5, 4, 5 all at different courses, and have had 1 of those scores count in my top 8,
which was 7.3 at Royal Perth.

I hate the 'US World Handicap System'.

 

[rulefan]

In my last 6 games I have played off scratch off 4, 3, 0, 5, 4, 5 all at different courses, and have had 1 of those scores count in my top 8,
which was 7.3 at Royal Perth.

I hate the 'US World Handicap System'.

Australia were one of the major influencers in the making of the WHS.

 

[AussieKB]

And our version has been changed at least 3-4 times, and most low markers still do not like it,
I can see why high handicappers like it, win an event and go out a full shot, have seen that
numerous times.

 

[rulefan]

And our version has been changed at least 3-4 times, and most low markers still do not like it,
I can see why high handicappers like it, win an event and go out a full shot, have seen that
numerous times.

How does the average of best 8 from 20 fit in with the result of one event?
To cause this the 20th oldest must be massively greater or lower than the most recent.

 

[3offTheTee]

How does the average of best 8 from 20 fit in with the result of one event?
To cause this the 20th oldest must be massively greater or lower than the most recent.

This has almost happened to me this week as I have had a terrible season partly due to injury. My score this week was 6 shots worse than my 20th score in July which would have resulted in a0.75 (0.8) increase.

I have been “soft capped” so only went up 0.4.However hard cap is not too far away.

 

[AussieKB]

How does the average of best 8 from 20 fit in with the result of one event?
To cause this the 20th oldest must be massively greater or lower than the most recent.

Agree it is......but have seen the winner several times go out a full shot, only happens to high handicappers,
one of the reasons they love the System.

 

[Backsticks]

Is that not due to a flaw in WHS, that taking 8 best for all HIs does not take account of the wider span of scores that a high HI player will have compared to a low ?

Even with the 8 scores, the span will be lower for a scratch than a 36. Should these not be normalised (roughly at least) so that the span of the scores taken gor the average HI is similar to a scratch players. Just for eg, best 8 for a scratch, best 7 for a 10hi, best 6 for a 20hi, best 5 for a 30hi. Or whatever. So high HIs less likely to be discarding a big difference score, and, their HI will skew closer to their capability, reducing the cases of scores that the low HI simply can never compete with.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

How does the average of best 8 from 20 fit in with the result of one event?
To cause this the 20th oldest must be massively greater or lower than the most recent.

Seriously? When your best score is the one dropping off, this can easily happen, especially higher handicappers with big variance

 

[Rlburnside]

Should also note that there is a (usually small) difference between the measured yardage (on the card) and the effective yardage (used for rating) due to elevation changes, layups, roll, wind, etc.

We have a relatively short course 6100 but it probably plays 400 yards longer due to us being in one of the windiest places in the UK, also very little run on the ball.


I think the rating could adjusted to be more than a “ small difference “

 

[sweaty sock]

Should we have handicaps that are for a continent, country, county, club?

Incidentally, all the issues that you listed above are dealt with in the rating manual.

Yes, we should have different systems by country, to refect different social norms, different attitudes to golf, and accept that handicaps made during a competition on a links course in scotland dont travel to a bounce game on a stadium courses in florida.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Yes, we should have different systems by country, to refect different social norms, different attitudes to golf, and accept that handicaps made during a competition on a links course in scotland dont travel to a bounce game on a stadium courses in florida.

Yup, there was absolutely no need for a world system in the first place, the logic given was that so folks handicaps could travel, and yet the only ones who travel competitively that I can ever think of at elite level players playing scratch events, so irrelevant anyway. It's a nonsense

 

[rulefan]

Yup, there was absolutely no need for a world system in the first place, the logic given was that so folks handicaps could travel, and yet the only ones who travel competitively that I can ever think of at elite level players playing scratch events, so irrelevant anyway. It's a nonsense

I live in a fairly wealthy area (I'm not though) and many members of my and other local clubs take long holidays in Spain, Portugal, Florida etc where they are members of local clubs. They play in the club and other local club's competitions and had always commented on the variations in handicaps. They still complain about the US lax approach to general play scores but have commented favourably on the standardisation re handicaps in general.