Aimpoint

[r0wly86]

We really going through this all again?

People that knock it have little knowledge of it. Any coincidence that you very rarely hear anyone that’s learnt it say ‘I don’t like it’?

These people are the same ones that still count putts per round as a measure of putting performance

These threads should just be banned. Let those that like it continue to benefit from it and those that don’t, don’t.

Doesn't really help the OP who only just heard about it and wanted some user info, or people like me who aren't against the idea but again know little about it in the real world

 

[MendieGK]

Doesn't really help the OP who only just heard about it and wanted some user info, or people like me who aren't against the idea but again know little about it in the real world

But can you honestly say after 12 pages you’ve learnt anything on this thread?

 

[3565]

But can you honestly say after 12 pages you’ve learnt anything on this thread?

And the reason for that is you get tired of the same issues being raised by those who don’t do it, so those who are intrigued or want to know more, don’t get the insight into it as it just becomes a slagging match on here.

 

[MendieGK]

And the reason for that is you get tired of the same issues being raised by those who don’t do it, so those who are intrigued or want to know more, don’t get the insight into it as it just becomes a slagging match on here.

I agree, shame really.

 

[nickjdavis]

While a putted ball may initially slide, and indeed involve a force of friction, surely rolling resistance, and the energy absorbed by bending blades of grass, and loss of kinetic energy from the ball due to the subtle rise and fall of the ball over the resulting rough surface, far exceeds the relevance of friction to a putt ? And so determine how far it will roll for a given impulse ?

Perhaps I should have used the term Coefficient of Rolling Resistance.

The point is, I was trying to demonstrate to those who deny that the system has any scientific foundation, that the principles that underpin aim point are indeed based on science... and quite basic science at that.

I still don't get the holding up fingers thing though... maybe I need to go on a refresher course!!!

 

[chrisd]

I still don't get the holding up fingers thing though... maybe I need to go on a refresher course!!!

The holding up of fingers is simply their way of (scientifically) converting the percentage slope into a point to aim at. This is the bit that those who've not been on the course but try to do it usually get wrong

 

[Jacko_G]

And the reason for that is you get tired of the same issues being raised by those who don’t do it, so those who are intrigued or want to know more, don’t get the insight into it as it just becomes a slagging match on here.

It becomes a "slagging match" due to the fact that aimpoint users can't accept that putting is down to the individual and their limitations regardless of what method of putting they use.

I have done the course and I understand perfectly well what the aimpoint philosophy and end game is all about.

I'll still tell you that it still boils down to the input from the user at the end of the day. If you use aimpoint and want to believe that it's a scientific theory that's great, feel free. Even better if you believe that this "science" helps you. In that case the course has been worthwhile.

On the flip side of the coin, reading greens by eye and using your own "in built" feel can be every bit as successful.

People are passionate about things I get that but there is also an awful lot of codswallop being branded about.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We really going through this all again?

People that knock it have little knowledge of it. Any coincidence that you very rarely hear anyone that’s learnt it say ‘I don’t like it’?

These people are the same ones that still count putts per round as a measure of putting performance

These threads should just be banned. Let those that like it continue to benefit from it and those that don’t, don’t.

You can’t ban threads about Aimpoint - that’s being silly , not one person is being disrespectful etc

Both sides could point fingers at each other

People who use Aimpoint get very defensive of any who shows any sort of critical point about it - it didn’t help when early stages there appeared to be a lot of secret and don’t tell what it’s about etc and also maybe people couldn’t understand why people would pay for it when all over the internet many pros give tips on how to read greens etc and there have been enough stories of people using the method but are slow doing it

I have played with people who have taken the course - some are slow doing it and I have played with some where I don’t see them doing - there are some on the forum who do it but when looking at HC it’s hard to see an improvement especially when someone is that vocal about it but when coming to showing stuff on vlogs don’t seem to be using it -

I do know two people from Woburn who did the course - a 1 HC and a 12 HC both found the theory of it interesting but after a while the 1 HC binned it and the 12 HC still uses it -the 12 HC clearly struggles with it because his green reading is shocking and a lot of times his biggest struggle especially at Woburn is greens with more than one break

You can even look at the list of Pros using it that they put up during the Sky bit - Dougherty went straight to the point - they all still have one weakness - putting even using the method but as he said it’s a method of reading greens not putting

I have seen it enough in use , read the TG bit and read the theory to decide that it appears to be a Guy has seen the Aimpoint thing on telly and come up with a theory in headlines that suggests he will help you hole more putts - that I suspect will sell courses because people will leap on that and use it as a crutch

I also suspect that people who have putted better since the course would still have putted better but the course is a placebo they hang onto but that’s up to them - it’s the same with a lot of these “methods” that come out - they latch onto golfers desire to improve

It’s like the comment is saw “ I have played with people who haven’t had a lesson and you can tell “ - I have played with people or seen people who have had more lessons than pros - and you can’t tell

But ultimately you can’t silence people when they are having an opinion you don’t like it - if it’s that bad an opinion which seeing the reactions from people then either ignore it or report it but there is certainly enough out there for people to form an opinion on the method without doing the course

 

[Deleted member 16999]

We really going through this all again?

People that knock it have little knowledge of it. Any coincidence that you very rarely hear anyone that’s learnt it say ‘I don’t like it’?

These people are the same ones that still count putts per round as a measure of putting performance

These threads should just be banned. Let those that like it continue to benefit from it and those that don’t, don’t.

Aimpoint in “The Lounge” equals the football thread in “Out of Bounds”

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

But can you honestly say after 12 pages you’ve learnt anything on this thread?

After numerous threads I have finally learnt a bit about it because Khamelion is the first person to actually explain how it works. Everyone else that has done the course is secretive about it so if you don't explain it is it any wonder that people slag it off?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have played with people who have taken the course - some are slow doing it and I have played with some where I don’t see them doing - there are some on the forum who do it but when looking at HC it’s hard to see an improvement especially when someone is that vocal about it but when coming to showing stuff on vlogs don’t seem to be using it -

That's not so much a thinly veiled dig as transparent. Ironic from someone that then moans about people having a pop at him. That aside. I already covered the point about it not being in video's as I've normally done the read, either before setting the camera into the right position (to save time if it's busy) or edited out as it doesn't bring anything to the video. As for the handicap, mine has gone up by the princely total of 0.2 points in almost nine months of 2018. Hardly an earth shattering change and nothing to do with my putting which is holding firm at an average of around 31 putts per round. There has also been a competition win in there.

This no drop in handicap has been used by you before as though it's some justification for Aimpoint not working and to be honest is just a smoke screen. There are lots of well documented flaws in my game that I'd argue are far more restrictive to dropping my handicap lower. Putting and Aimpoint isn't one of them.

You talk about respect. Please don't then come on here making sly digs at someone you say is a) vocal about it (yes because I feel it works on any course and has helped MY game) and b) someone enjoys making the odd video and putting it on youtube (not only has it given me some interesting opportunities but is something I enjoy and I wouldn't dream of mocking your pursuits so don't mock mine)

As I've said to everyone who has responded. Simply try it. There are resources out there that will give you the basic information to take it onto a practice green and try it. Don't bin it after ten minutes as it takes time to acquire the skill and develop it.

 

[Slab]

That's not so much a thinly veiled dig as transparent. Ironic from someone that then moans about people having a pop at him. That aside. I already covered the point about it not being in video's as I've normally done the read, either before setting the camera into the right position (to save time if it's busy) or edited out as it doesn't bring anything to the video. As for the handicap, mine has gone up by the princely total of 0.2 points in almost nine months of 2018. Hardly an earth shattering change and nothing to do with my putting which is holding firm at an average of around 31 putts per round. There has also been a competition win in there.

This no drop in handicap has been used by you before as though it's some justification for Aimpoint not working and to be honest is just a smoke screen. There are lots of well documented flaws in my game that I'd argue are far more restrictive to dropping my handicap lower. Putting and Aimpoint isn't one of them.

You talk about respect. Please don't then come on here making sly digs at someone you say is a) vocal about it (yes because I feel it works on any course and has helped MY game) and b) someone enjoys making the odd video and putting it on youtube (not only has it given me some interesting opportunities but is something I enjoy and I wouldn't dream of mocking your pursuits so don't mock mine)

As I've said to everyone who has responded. Simply try it. There are resources out there that will give you the basic information to take it onto a practice green and try it. Don't bin it after ten minutes as it takes time to acquire the skill and develop it.

Maybe you should try a chipper club... but you wont for reasons you've stated (and are happy to have sly dig at that tool and its use) aimpoint is exactly the same thing but you are on the other side of the coin on this one

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Aimpoint in “The Lounge” equals the football thread in “Out of Bounds”

I would have said the Brexit thread myself but I take your point

 

[shortgame]

A) when I did aimpoint we judged the slope along the entire length of the putt... not just at the midpoint which appears to be a more recent simplification of the process.... and to be honest... over the sort of length putts that aimpoint is useful for (i.e. below 20ft in my opinion) you don't get too many putts that vary wildly in terms of the gradient of the slope across what you are hitting.


B) agreed.

c) Well, the slope is expressed in terms of %, not degrees but you do get used to gauging the difference between a 1:100, 1:50, 1:33 and 1:25 slope.... but as I said in my response to R0wly86....thats the bit you as a player have to practice...Aimpoint doesn't work out the putt with no input from you... its a technique that needs to be first learned and then developed....a bit like being a Jedi Knight.

With the fingers stuff.... that's a new development since I did my original course many years ago.... and I just don't get it... as you say.... everyone fingers are different.... the fingers thing is introducing a bit of black magic into the scientific process that I once understood!!!


Also.... not withstanding the entire process, a player still needs to be able to first aim his putter along his selected line and then strike the putt along that line.... if he can't do that consistently then aimpoint or any other similar system won't do anything for him.

Thanks for the response, I'm glad that some of us can have a sensible discussion - I've learned a few bits that I didn't know before

I'm still a bit undecided about it, however for me personally it's not an issue as my green reading is pretty good but it's an interesting topic.

 

[r0wly86]

Perhaps I should have used the term Coefficient of Rolling Resistance.

The point is, I was trying to demonstrate to those who deny that the system has any scientific foundation, that the principles that underpin aim point are indeed based on science... and quite basic science at that.

I still don't get the holding up fingers thing though... maybe I need to go on a refresher course!!!

But you don't know the coefficient of friction or the rolling resistance of the ball, you don't know the speed of the green.

You estimate the speed of the green using your own internal scoring mechanism, this usually subconscious as in you know how hard to hit this one, because it's a similar length to the last one which I hit this hard.

Again you don't know the gradient of the slope, you have not got a topographical cross section and got your protractor out to measure it. Again what you do have is an internal method of scoring the level of the slope relative to your other putts.

If I read a putt not using aimpoint I am doing the same thing really, I am cross referencing the current putt with every other putt I have ever taken. The speed of the green is not known but calculated in my head, like wise the slope gradient, I look at it and my brain works out that it is similar to a putt I have done before which broke a certain amount. With that calculation done my brain works out the path the ball should take to get into the hole.

What Aimpoint does as far as I can see is breaks down that calculation into different stages. If you are not good at reading putts the traditional way then this could be a great assistance as it adds in some conscious thought into the process, and enhances your databank of your putts with a standardised internal scoring system.

I am not denigrating the system I'm sure it does work.

I just do not buy the scientific slant on it. Everything is down to scientific principle, even the traditional way of reading a putt is working out the rolling resistance of the ball and the slope of the green. The difference is that it internalised.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Maybe you should try a chipper club... but you wont for reasons you've stated (and are happy to have sly dig at that tool and its use) aimpoint is exactly the same thing but you are on the other side of the coin on this one

Short game is actually on the up too but chipping is just a sum of all the parts of my game that are holding me back. I have tried a chipper way back when I first got back into golf in my late 20's-early 30's as a PP had one and curiosity got the better of me. Way too one dimensional. I have tried to learn different shots with different clubs. On good days these are good, on bad days not so good but as I said only a part of the overall issues in my game

 

[Val]

Can anyone tell which top ranking golfers are using this method? The only one I've seen using it is Adam Scott and he's ranked 44.

I'm not knocking the method either, if anyone thinks it benefits there game and improves their putting the wire in, however Jacko makes a key point in this and it's user input. It doesn't matter how good you are at reading greens by what ever method you use, if your own technique is poor then you'll miss more than you will hole out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can anyone tell which top ranking golfers are using this method? The only one I've seen using it is Adam Scott and he's ranked 44.

I'm not knocking the method either, if anyone thinks it benefits there game and improves their putting the wire in, however Jacko makes a key point in this and it's user input. It doesn't matter how good you are at reading greens by what ever method you use, if your own technique is poor then you'll miss more than you will hole out.

Justin Rose has used it and believe DJ has also dabbled with it - pictures showing his caddy doing it as well , but think Rose and Scott the two high profile users in the men’s game - Ko and Lewis in the Ladies

 

[Val]

Justin Rose has used it and believe DJ has also dabbled with it - pictures showing his caddy doing it as well , but think Rose and Scott the two high profile users in the men’s game - Ko and Lewis in the Ladies

Just had a quick google and was surprised to fin a list that includes the following more well know players who have all dabbled or continue with it.

Kevin Chappel
Jason Dufner
Brian Gay
Charles Howell III
Zack Johnson
Hunter Mahon
Ian Poulter
Justin Rose
Adam Scott
Mike Weir
Andy Sullivan

 

[MendieGK]

After numerous threads I have finally learnt a bit about it because Khamelion is the first person to actually explain how it works. Everyone else that has done the course is secretive about it so if you don't explain it is it any wonder that people slag it off?

i've never been secretive about it. i've taught it to a number of people. its not rocket science, and the fact of the matter is, you yourself use the large majority of the aimpoint concept. Only difference is, you gauge the break based on your feel rather than attributing the scientific element of it.

Explaining it on here would largely be to defend it rather than for a knowledge share. If someone wants to create a thread that is locked to comments where i explain it i would more than happily do it. it would take about 2 paragraphs.