Aimpoint

[User20205]

How can you ban aimpoint? It would be like banning reading putts with your eyes...

I don’t disagree. It’s just that aimpoint was described as a scientific method, feed info in, get info out. Is that the same as the green book? Just info?

 

[nickjdavis]

While that is true, that's not what aimpoint does as far as I can understand.

The gradient isn't known, not quantifiably anyway, it's down to the individual qualitatively scoring the level of gradient on an arbitrary scale.

As everyone is different you may say a slope is 2 on your scale, while homer says it's a 3 on his scale.

What it will do is give you a routine and library of putts for you as an individual. Every time you use it your brain will store it and it's result, so if you do 15 putts as a 2 and miss everyone on the short side your brain will compensate and the next time you have the same slope you'll grade it as a 3.

Everyone will be slightly different

But that's is the science behind which aimpoint originated. When I did my original pinpoint course back in June 2011 we were taught how to gauge the specific gradients in terms of 1%, 2%, etc...and the original aimpoint charts gave you specific break distances based upon the stimp (which is effectively the coefficient of friction in the scientific model), % gradient and whether you were putting at 90*, 60* or 30* to the break.

Don't get me wrong... you still need to learn to gauge the slope and judge the fall line and, as you point out, that's the bit that takes time and practice.... or... you could even be really thorough and get yourself a digital spirit level that gives readings in % and create yourself a map of the green.

But the science behind it is simple.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

By the feel you get from you feet.

​

Without wanting to be flippant it's the connection between you brain and feet and the knowledge through experience you have knowing that you are standing on a slope or gradient. Then knowing through Aimpoint and practice what that gradient equates to in terms of a percentage.



The info is in front of you when you look for a read, but as I wrote, if what you are looking at tells your brain that the break is left to right and you play your put left expecting it to break right but instead it stays left or goes further left, Aimpoint through feeling the slope eliminates those optical illusion reads.

Thanks for the clarification, you have basically summed up what I have done all my golfing career which is sense the break through my feet. Also, despite all the threads on here about it you are also the first person (from what I can see) who has actually explained what aimpoint is all about. Everyone else seems to be very secretive about it for some reason so thanks for that :thup:

 

[Hobbit]

Its a method, and it has a label, Aimpoint. If it works for you, crack on.

I'm happy with the way I putt, so won't be even contemplating trying it but I have no problem whatsoever with anyone using it or any other method that works for them.

Out on the course we see various pre-shot routines and lining up methods. What's so different that Aimpoint takes so much stick?

 

[User20205]

. What's so different that Aimpoint takes so much stick?

You want answers? You want answers? You want the truth, you can’t handle the truth!!!

 

[Backsticks]

Its a method, and it has a label, Aimpoint. If it works for you, crack on.

I'm happy with the way I putt, so won't be even contemplating trying it but I have no problem whatsoever with anyone using it or any other method that works for them.

Out on the course we see various pre-shot routines and lining up methods. What's so different that Aimpoint takes so much stick?

They charge money for it maybe ?
Really though, its probably more a case of claiming that there is a repeatable system. But golfing technique gimmicks are usually a bit tongue in cheek, in a kinda if-it-works-for-you-it-works-for-you, way. But when its sold, you will have people who feel its time to cry foul, especially when there are claims of a sound scientific basis for it.

 

[nickjdavis]

... provided that:


a) the slope is consistent ° across the length of the putt and the midpoint (where you feel the slope) is also consistent.

b) the green speed is known - not every green will be the same speed and not necessarily the same speed as the practice green, none of which may actually be at the speed published (some clubs do like to exaggerate their stimp readings!)

c) you can accurately guage the difference in a 1°, 1.5°, 2° etc slopes!

Or am I wrong?

Oh and assuming you haven't got thin, or fat, or swollen etc fingers!

A) when I did aimpoint we judged the slope along the entire length of the putt... not just at the midpoint which appears to be a more recent simplification of the process.... and to be honest... over the sort of length putts that aimpoint is useful for (i.e. below 20ft in my opinion) you don't get too many putts that vary wildly in terms of the gradient of the slope across what you are hitting.


B) agreed.

c) Well, the slope is expressed in terms of %, not degrees but you do get used to gauging the difference between a 1:100, 1:50, 1:33 and 1:25 slope.... but as I said in my response to R0wly86....thats the bit you as a player have to practice...Aimpoint doesn't work out the putt with no input from you... its a technique that needs to be first learned and then developed....a bit like being a Jedi Knight.

With the fingers stuff.... that's a new development since I did my original course many years ago.... and I just don't get it... as you say.... everyone fingers are different.... the fingers thing is introducing a bit of black magic into the scientific process that I once understood!!!


Also.... not withstanding the entire process, a player still needs to be able to first aim his putter along his selected line and then strike the putt along that line.... if he can't do that consistently then aimpoint or any other similar system won't do anything for him.

 

[Backsticks]

the original aimpoint charts gave you specific break distances based upon the stimp (which is effectively the coefficient of friction in the scientific model)

Coefficient of friction ???

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Found my aimpoint chart in my locker over the weekend. Tempted to go out and use that (it was still only 15-20 seconds per read) and compare read for read.

 

[Hobbit]

They charge money for it maybe ?
Really though, its probably more a case of claiming that there is a repeatable system. But golfing technique gimmicks are usually a bit tongue in cheek, in a kinda if-it-works-for-you-it-works-for-you, way. But when its sold, you will have people who feel its time to cry foul, especially when there are claims of a sound scientific basis for it.

And they charge money for lessons on long game, short game, chipping etc. Different pro's will have different techniques, variations of a theme. What's the difference with Aimpoint? Its a method, no different than the many methods we all adopt for different aspects of the game.

My putting method includes a number of repeatable aspects. The way I aim, the way I read a slope, the way I look to achieve the 'feel.' Some might even have a root in the many books I've paid for down the last 50 years - paid for just like an Aimpoint devotee might have done for their lesson.

I've not seen anything from many of the detractors that has any basis in solid reasoning.

 

[nickjdavis]

Coefficient of friction ???

Yes.... its a value that expresses the relationship of the force of friction between two objects.

If there was no friction between the rolling ball and the green, the ball would roll forever.... just like a softly struck putt on Augusta greens can be hammered off the green whilst the same putt on your local municipal course green will stop much more quickly.

Exactly the same as you get slow and fast cloths on snooker tables... its just one cloth having a different friction between it and the snooker ball than the other cloth.

In golf we have a way of measuring and representing the friction between the ball and the green.... by using a Stimpmeter....although we are not measuring friction directly we are measuring the effects of friction in terms of measuring how far the ball rolls.

 

[Backsticks]

Yes.... its a value that expresses the relationship of the force of friction between two objects.

While a putted ball may initially slide, and indeed involve a force of friction, surely rolling resistance, and the energy absorbed by bending blades of grass, and loss of kinetic energy from the ball due to the subtle rise and fall of the ball over the resulting rough surface, far exceeds the relevance of friction to a putt ? And so determine how far it will roll for a given impulse ?

 

[Jacko_G]

By the feel you get from you feet.

​

Without wanting to be flippant it's the connection between you brain and feet and the knowledge through experience you have knowing that you are standing on a slope or gradient. Then knowing through Aimpoint and practice what that gradient equates to in terms of a percentage.



The info is in front of you when you look for a read, but as I wrote, if what you are looking at tells your brain that the break is left to right and you play your put left expecting it to break right but instead it stays left or goes further left, Aimpoint through feeling the slope eliminates those optical illusion reads.

So you obviously never miss a putt!

 

[Deleted member 1740]

So you obviously never miss a putt!

Aimpoint doesnt say you'll never miss a putt if you use it. Thats just the old Craw being flippant

 

[3565]

By the feel you get from you feet.

​

Without wanting to be flippant it's the connection between you brain and feet and the knowledge through experience you have knowing that you are standing on a slope or gradient. Then knowing through Aimpoint and practice what that gradient equates to in terms of a percentage.



The info is in front of you when you look for a read, but as I wrote, if what you are looking at tells your brain that the break is left to right and you play your put left expecting it to break right but instead it stays left or goes further left, Aimpoint through feeling the slope eliminates those optical illusion reads.

And through your knowledge In finding that percentage, gives you the number you need, and knowing the amount of arm bend, if doing AE, will give you your aimpoint for that break. But like I've said in the past on this subject to all the detractors of it, you can have the most complex, scientific gadgetry to calculate the break, whether it's your fingers, toes, feet, elbow, eyes and brain, it's no good if you don't start your putt online and with good speed.

 

[Jacko_G]

Aimpoint doesnt say you'll never miss a putt if you use it. Thats just the old Craw being flippant

No flippancy at all however the way that it was written suggests that the poster has it all figured out and you can't miss.

It's like me saying I read every putt and know the pace on every putt I make. Bottom line is - aimpoint or bog standard "reading greens" it all boils down to user input and user error.

That is the only fact of putting science

 

[chrisd]

No flippancy at all however the way that it was written suggests that the poster has it all figured out and you can't miss.

It's like me saying I read every putt and know the pace on every putt I make. Bottom line is - aimpoint or bog standard "reading greens" it all boils down to user input and user error.

That is the only fact of putting science

No, Stuart's right, typical Craw wind up.

I'm happy with the fact that enough top pros use it to be satisfied there's merit in it and if those who use it save only, say, 2 putts a round using it then its been worth while. I've played with plenty of people who proudly boast that they've never had a lesson in their life - my usual thought is " yes i can see that"

Aimpoint with Jamie Donaldson was time well spent, worth the money and I've yet to hear anyone whose done the lesson say anything negative about it, unlike those who haven't done it!

 

[Jacko_G]

No, Stuart's right, typical Craw wind up.

I'm happy with the fact that enough top pros use it to be satisfied there's merit in it and if those who use it save only, say, 2 putts a round using it then its been worth while. I've played with plenty of people who proudly boast that they've never had a lesson in their life - my usual thought is " yes i can see that"

Aimpoint with Jamie Donaldson was time well spent, worth the money and I've yet to hear anyone whose done the lesson say anything negative about it, unlike those who haven't done it!

Does aimpoint correct your fine motor skills, iron out your twitches, stop you getting anxious, stop you raising your head that fraction early?

I'm actually not knocking the system I'm knocking the people who describe it as an unfallible system. That is utter tosh. It's only as good as the user input. Same as any system of putting.

That is fact.

 

[chrisd]

Does aimpoint correct your fine motor skills, iron out your twitches, stop you getting anxious, stop you raising your head that fraction early?

I'm actually not knocking the system I'm knocking the people who describe it as an unfallible system. That is utter tosh. It's only as good as the user input. Same as any system of putting.

That is fact.

I've not read anyone saying it's infallible or even faintly suggesting its the cure to all putting woes

Its like the clock method or linear method of chipping, the stack and tilt method of full shots, different ways of getting out of bunkers, its a system for better green reading not how to putt. if it's utter codswallop I don't see why any tour player would use it, Adam Scott, Justin Rose etc may not be the best putters out there but clearly feel it helps their green reading which is all its intended to do and I believe it does it pretty well.

 

[MendieGK]

We really going through this all again?

People that knock it have little knowledge of it. Any coincidence that you very rarely hear anyone that’s learnt it say ‘I don’t like it’?

These people are the same ones that still count putts per round as a measure of putting performance

These threads should just be banned. Let those that like it continue to benefit from it and those that don’t, don’t.