Aimpoint

[3 jabber]

What happens when you teach the worlds best. How much is a lesson with Pete Cowen

Exactly my point. The man in the street is never likely to have a lesson with Grieve or Cowan. But if the world's best want to improve their short game I know a guy that can save a few quid.

 

[Dunesman]

1) Proven technology originally designed for TV to show the break of the putt accurately and still used. Not niche with increasing number of male and female tour players and leading amateurs using it
2) Can help anyone and there were juniors on my course that were severely under reading putts at the start and then started making 10 footers (not every one but we're not tour pros) but the read was far better. It is like anything related to the golf game, it has to be learned and practiced
3) Pace is important of course but putting is a combination of pace and line but a bad read invalidates a putt hit with perfect pace.
4) How is it counter productive if it improves a players read

I think there are many testamonials online from top players who have switched and stuck with it and improved their stats. It is no more un-natural than plumb bobbing which has its own limitations and Mark Sweeney from aimpoint has debunked (again material online)

1) Aimpoint express as we are discussing here is certainly not a technology. It may be an acquirable skill and method to help putting.
Niche is still a fair comment. I dont believe I have played with, or even seen an amateur golfer do it for real. I play golf about 70 times a year. Even among the pros, it is a clear minority. The stats are maybe known, but I will guess no more than 10%. And thats probably one of the strongest anecdotal points that suggest it is more likely not to truly be of benefit. No serious golfer is arguing let alone playing with a balata ball or persimmon driver on the basis that they dont think there is any advantage to metal drivers.

2) This sort of conclusion needs a more rigourous test to determine its benefit. The players or juniors might just as much or even more have benefitted from a non aimpoint green reading lesson, or general putting lesson.
Some more scientific assessments of it will surely be forthcoming in time. The tours have the most detailed data to allow at least a limited study of that grouping and how for example, taking the top 50, the putting stats from aimpointers versus non aimpointers compare. The American universities are very dynamic and well resourced in their golf programmes, and will be researching it undoubtedly. If there is a proven advatange, they will all churn out aimpointers. Maybe it is too early. Or maybe they have researched it and there is no advantage.
Unlike a lot of golf technique and performance theories, it a question that could be cleared up definitevely relatively easily I think.

3) Of course, pace and line matter. Pace skill does seem the more important though for overall putting stats though. The question is whether aimpoint is superior in determining a line than visual. And line being linked to pace, if aimpoint is determining a line, at what pace is that. This is an interesting point on Aimpoint, and I would be interested in the views of those who have done the formal training : 1) is there an 'Aimpoint Pace' and what does that aim to be on a near miss of the hole (2ft beyond for eg) and 2) (just to understand the process), there is a total of nine possible 'lines', i.e no fingers, and 1-4 finger to the left, and 1-4 fingers to the right ?

4) I am suggesting the possibility, that even users of it must acknowledge, not of course that it would be counterproductive if it improves a persons read (a contradiction, I agree), but that if it maybe doesnt improve a read, then it may even instead positively mislead the player.

 

[Dunesman]

An element that might be very difficult to test, givem that Aimpoint does require the use if sight, would be whether, in the carrying out of the aimpoint process, golfers are nevertheless making a line judge in the traditional sense, even subconsciously.

I dont want to come across as negative on it, and do keep an open mind on whether it has merit. If the case could be proven, I think it would just become another accepted part of the development of golf and we will all be using it. At the moment, the low takeup, and its somewhat association with the crazy and wacky of the putting world, who will do anything in hope or desperation to improve their performance on the greens means it faces a head wind. But if it is more than gimmick, in time it will win out.

 

[DeanoMK]

I'm not really sure what you're laughing at here? Golf psychology is a massive thing, Arnold Palmer famously said that the whole game is "6 inches between your ears" and he's not wrong whatsoever.

 

[Morfeen75]

I'm not really sure what you're laughing at here? Golf psychology is a massive thing, Arnold Palmer famously said that the whole game is "6 inches between your ears" and he's not wrong whatsoever.

It was the contradictory post that made me laugh. You wont need to look too far back for evidence.
Tour pros and your average club golfers are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.
Club golfers overthink way too much. Keep it simple and golf isnt that hard.

I stupidly bought Bob Rotella's audio books and listened to them whilst i was travelling with work. It was way too much information that i didnt really need. Afterall im just a club golfer who plays golf for fun. If i was a tour pro trying to make a living out of it i may have a different opinion.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It was the contradictory post that made me laugh. You wont need to look too far back for evidence.
Tour pros and your average club golfers are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.
Club golfers overthink way too much. Keep it simple and golf isnt that hard.

I stupidly bought Bob Rotella's audio books and listened to them whilst i was travelling with work. It was way too much information that i didnt really need. Afterall im just a club golfer who plays golf for fun. If i was a tour pro trying to make a living out of it i may have a different opinion.

Some really simple ideas here -

Nothing earth shattering just some common sense that club golfers whether playing for fun or in a comp often don't do which can really help especially after a bad shot

 

[Morfeen75]

Some really simple ideas here -

Nothing earth shattering just some common sense that club golfers whether playing for fun or in a comp often don't do which can really help especially after a bad shot

Thanks but i'd rather listen to chas n daves classic Rabbit on repeat

I would argue if its common sense why listen to someone talking about it? I know some like to complicate the game but it's not for me.

Im glad its helped you drop your handicap by 3.7 . Once you have mastered the new Eureka swing hopefully you'll be even lower.

 

[Orikoru]

It was the contradictory post that made me laugh. You wont need to look too far back for evidence.
Tour pros and your average club golfers are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.
Club golfers overthink way too much. Keep it simple and golf isnt that hard.

I stupidly bought Bob Rotella's audio books and listened to them whilst i was travelling with work. It was way too much information that i didnt really need. Afterall im just a club golfer who plays golf for fun. If i was a tour pro trying to make a living out of it i may have a different opinion.

This is such a weird example. I've read two Rotella books and I loved the way he simplified the game for me and removed a lot of extraneous waffle and overthinking - so the exact opposite of what you've said. I was over-reading putts and overthinking my putting stroke, but he teaches to trust your first instinct on line and just putt freely, don't be scared of running one past the hole.

 

[PJ87]

This is such a weird example. I've read two Rotella books and I loved the way he simplified the game for me and removed a lot of extraneous waffle and overthinking - so the exact opposite of what you've said. I was over-reading putts and overthinking my putting stroke, but he teaches to trust your first instinct on line and just putt freely, don't be scared of running one past the hole.

I like what Dan Greaves said aswell that his theory is everyone has the capability to have a fantastic short game as there isn't the fitness and power that you need to be a top level golfer . You can be taught to have a good short game like a pro but still drive like Miss daisy

 

[Morfeen75]

This is such a weird example. I've read two Rotella books and I loved the way he simplified the game for me and removed a lot of extraneous waffle and overthinking - so the exact opposite of what you've said. I was over-reading putts and overthinking my putting stroke, but he teaches to trust your first instinct on line and just putt freely, don't be scared of running one past the hole.

Eh??

You've ageed with me about overthinking!!

 

[Morfeen75]

I like what Dan Greaves said aswell that his theory is everyone has the capability to have a fantastic short game as there isn't the fitness and power that you need to be a top level golfer . You can be taught to have a good short game like a pro but still drive like Miss daisy

How often have you seen a playing partner have a lesson, perform well for a few rounds then all of sudden go back to their old ways?

 

[Orikoru]

Eh??

You've ageed with me about overthinking!!

Yes - but you said Bob Rotella was contributing to the overthinking. I'm telling you that his books are actually aim to combat overthinking and simplify things - so you either didn't understand them or you weren't paying attention. (The latter is a reason I tend to read the book rather than use audiobooks where your attention can wander..)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How often have you seen a playing partner have a lesson, perform well for a few rounds then all of sudden go back to their old ways?

Depends how much they work at it afterwards. Many turn up, get a sticking plaster fix and just go out and play without any work and when it doesn't work revert to old habits. Any change at club level takes some work to inbed and even then there is usually some down turn in scores as it tries to fit in on the course. If people keep working at what they were shown it will eventually work

 

[PJ87]

How often have you seen a playing partner have a lesson, perform well for a few rounds then all of sudden go back to their old ways?

Everyone has the potential but few have the dedication or the time

 

[Backache]

To be fair Rotella has written something like nine different books on golf and they're probably not all great. Though I think Golf is not a game of Perfect is a bit of a classic.
Although there are some probably fairly useful fundamentals I suspect peoples psychology varies and what is useful for some is not for others.

He also got the odd thing wrong which has subsequently been well demonstrated such as his insistence that the short game was of greater importance than the long game.

 

[Morfeen75]

Yes - but you said Bob Rotella was contributing to the overthinking. I'm telling you that his books are actually aim to combat overthinking and simplify things - so you either didn't understand them or you weren't paying attention. (The latter is a reason I tend to read the book rather than use audiobooks where your attention can wander..)

I totally understood what he was saying, it just didnt tell me anything i didnt already know. Thats a personal view. Im glad its helped you and your way of thinking.

 

[Morfeen75]

To be fair Rotella has written something like nine different books on golf and they're probably not all great. Though I think Golf is not a game of Perfect is a bit of a classic.
Although there are some probably fairly useful fundamentals I suspect peoples psychology varies and what is useful for some is not for others.

He also got the odd thing wrong which has subsequently been well demonstrated such as his insistence that the short game was of greater importance than the long game.

Absoloutely true and possibly the case here for me.

 

[Morfeen75]

Everyone has the potential but few have the dedication or the time

The point i'm making is club golfers overthink the game. Some will have lessons, see results improve, then sub conciously revert back to their old ways or think they've cracked it. Then you have those who dont really listen. I watched a video lesson on youtube a while back and the guy that was being coached just did not listen. Half swing. Half swing. Half swing came from the coach only for the guy to hit the next ball with a full swing!! I'll try and find it at some point.

 

[Orikoru]

The point i'm making is club golfers overthink the game. Some will have lessons, see results improve, then sub conciously revert back to their old ways or think they've cracked it. Then you have those who dont really listen. I watched a video lesson on youtube a while back and the guy that was being coached just did not listen. Half swing. Half swing. Half swing came from the coach only for the guy to hit the next ball with a full swing!! I'll try and find it at some point.

Some people are more/less coachable than others, but it is very difficult to change a swing or technique that you have used for 5, 10 years or more. Imagine how many golf balls you've hit with your old swing, and how many more it will take before a new swing becomes automatic.

 

[Fore Right]

Aimpoint is the scurge of slow play.