4bbb - 90% allowance??
- Thread starter chrisd
- Start date
User20205
Money List Winner
It was compared to my last 2 outings where I was carving my drives all over the shop, I only carved 1 yesterday on our 10th plus 1 huge block on the 4th but still managed a respectable bogey, otherwise I was hitting greens in regulation or chipping close for single putts and pars but he was a birdie machine, turns out he used to be off single figures but now doesn't play that often so he done me good & proper
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Bit of a sweeping generalisation, especially since i can't see any gripes on this thread about it.
If you'd said Asian people moan about it you'd be racist.
If you'd said women moan about it you'd be sexist.
But it's ok to say a particular group of golfers moan about it?
Yes, I'm moaning about being told I moan
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
you can be the lower capper even if you are off 22 ,if you are playing a 28 capper.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Bit of a sweeping generalisation, especially since i can't see any gripes on this thread about it.
If you'd said Asian people moan about it you'd be racist.
If you'd said women moan about it you'd be sexist.
But it's ok to say a particular group of golfers moan about it?
Yes, I'm moaning about being told I moan
Are you honestly trying to align racism and sexism with the assertion that lower handicapped players are more likely to have a grumble when beaten by a player with a higher handicap?
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Not equating them at all but why should it be ok to bash low hc's, especially for something that hasn't reared its head on this thread.
I should have put it better.
In fact, I should have not taken the bait and just kept my trap shut
Last edited:
User20205
Money List Winner
it's a ism and a valid one at that. All of this unpleasantness would be avoided if you lot just worked a bit harder
Foxholer
Blackballed
There is a reason why I believe that some low cappers should be allowed to moan about some higher ones - and that is where they are 'equally talented', but one has (successfully) worked extremely hard to get down, while the other (for any number of reasons) has simply 'taken advantage of' the way the handicap system works and stayed at their original level - but with significant headroom for having a really good day! In this case, I'd probably back the higher capper over a series of matches, though anything can happen in a single match!
As for the change to 90% for 4BBB, it certainly has used statistics to support the change, along with results from other countries that have changed to 100%!
As for the change to 90% for 4BBB, it certainly has used statistics to support the change, along with results from other countries that have changed to 100%!
Old Skier
Tour Winner
We were assured that it had been done on stats. Since the introduction of all Q scores being uploaded to the central system they have been able to run many different models based on all kinds handicap configurations with accurate up to date data.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
How many q scores off 3/4 HC or 4BBB scores of 3/4 HC have you entered into the system - for us it is a grand total of "zero"
How can data from full HC single qualifiers be used
They haven't asked clubs how they felt about 3/4 HC for 4BBB and KO nor asked golfers
So where have they got the "stats" to back up any change
We were told they got opinions from "focus" groups - the make up of these they didn't say
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
I think that the stats will still favour lower handicaps overall.
There's something in the annual review recommendations (I think it was mentioned on here a year or two ago) that gives a rough formula as to what each handicap category should average over the season if their handicap is accurate.
I may not have explained that very well but hopefully you know what I mean.
So a cat1 might be expected to average 3 over handicap over a season, and a cat3 average 6 over handicap. Figures probably wrong, I'm just guessing.
Anyway, changing from 3/4 to 90% is going to bring the two players average games closer together. The low guy is still at a slight statistical advantage as his average game is closer to his handicap.
As there is a bigger variance in score the higher handicap you look at, I think a cat3 on a good day is at a big advantage over a cat1 on a good day. If you look at what the Americans like to call a career day, the cat1 has almost zero chance.
Fair enough maybe? Cat1 has an advantage at one end of the scale and cat3 at the other end.
But, I don't expect to be competitive on an average day. I think I should have to play very well to have a chance at winning anything.
I hope that doesn't sound like a moan, it's not intended to be, but if it is then so be it.
There's something in the annual review recommendations (I think it was mentioned on here a year or two ago) that gives a rough formula as to what each handicap category should average over the season if their handicap is accurate.
I may not have explained that very well but hopefully you know what I mean.
So a cat1 might be expected to average 3 over handicap over a season, and a cat3 average 6 over handicap. Figures probably wrong, I'm just guessing.
Anyway, changing from 3/4 to 90% is going to bring the two players average games closer together. The low guy is still at a slight statistical advantage as his average game is closer to his handicap.
As there is a bigger variance in score the higher handicap you look at, I think a cat3 on a good day is at a big advantage over a cat1 on a good day. If you look at what the Americans like to call a career day, the cat1 has almost zero chance.
Fair enough maybe? Cat1 has an advantage at one end of the scale and cat3 at the other end.
But, I don't expect to be competitive on an average day. I think I should have to play very well to have a chance at winning anything.
I hope that doesn't sound like a moan, it's not intended to be, but if it is then so be it.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
If I ever get to the holy grail of Cat 1, I am going to moan like a banshee, all you/me hackers better watch out😃
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
You obviously play well a lot then because you seem to do alright.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Apart from teams comps when I can play dump and let other people carry me
I haven't even mentioned it
To be honest we all did our part,at least you didn't 3 putt from 20 feet
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Whilst they can use returned cards to create theoretical pairs competitions (valid) there has also been a lot of practical evaluation, which started from direct returns from clubs in respect of their knockout events when then moved to 100% ( NZ golf union went first).
The argument put forward by some regarding those who wish to compete v those who wish to improve their handicap has no specific bearing on 4BBB - it applies to every form of competitive golf.
User20205
Money List Winner
On a semi serious point. Full allowance and 90% in 4bbb encourage match play 'specialists' aka massive bandits. There are a couple at my place. They play 3 qualifiers a year, but play the roll up every week. They target and invariably clean up in handicap match play.
Any changes to the allowance should be accompanied by an increase in the no of min qualifiers. I go at least 5 maybe 7 in a 12 month period.
I don't mind giving shots if the handicap is valid.
Any changes to the allowance should be accompanied by an increase in the no of min qualifiers. I go at least 5 maybe 7 in a 12 month period.
I don't mind giving shots if the handicap is valid.
chrisd
Major Champion
Good point!
