4bbb - 90% allowance??

[chrisd]

MashleyR7 and I played our first winter league game of the season today. We're both off 11 and our opponents were 15 and 18.

At the moment, we still do 3/4 difference - now Ash and I probably played the course 1, maybe 2 over as a better ball. Ash, parred 12 consecutive holes during the match and we didn't win one of them, and I wasn't much worse for my part !

We lost 5 and 4 - so 90% should add to the games excitement! :smirk::smirk::smirk:

 

[duncan mackie]

We played a for some match today giving 11 shots to a pair of 17 handicap players.

We were about 3 over gross when we shook hands after 18.

We got beaten - nothing to do with handicap allowances!

At 90% we will still be out of step with the majority of the world - only the EGA is at 90%; everyone else has already gone to 100%.

 

[chrisd]

Probably the allowance wasnt (in reality) the deciding factor as the 18 h/c just had a great game on the day, but I do feel giving more shots would have given us no chance whatsoever

 

[robert.redmile]

I would hope that the r and a have used lots of data to make this change.
the whole point of the handicap is to give everyone the same chance, and u would think that this change was made because statistically speaking , those teams with lower handicaps were winning more often compared with higher handicapped teams.

 

[Crow]

Probably the allowance wasnt (in reality) the deciding factor as the 18 h/c just had a great game on the day, but I do feel giving more shots would have given us no chance whatsoever

That's normal in golf, some days the opposition will totally outplay you, on others it'll be them crying into their beer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would hope that the r and a have used lots of data to make this change.
the whole point of the handicap is to give everyone the same chance, and u would think that this change was made because statistically speaking , those teams with lower handicaps were winning more often compared with higher handicapped teams.

I don't think it's being changed on the back of statistics

And it's a change by Congu that they believe will encourage high HC golfers to take part in more comps and encourage people to take up the game

 

[robert.redmile]

I don't think it's being changed on the back of statistics

And it's a change by Congu that they believe will encourage high HC golfers to take part in more comps and encourage people to take up the game

Doesn't seem fair on the lower handicappers then! Surely the allowances should be based on making it as "fair" as possible, and not skewed to give one group a better chance than another?

 

[woody69]

I don't think it's being changed on the back of statistics

And it's a change by Congu that they believe will encourage high HC golfers to take part in more comps and encourage people to take up the game

You honestly think England Golf have not conducted research into establishing the fair allowance for 4BBB? I'm fairly certain they would have and if anything have still gone against it slightly by compromising on 90% rather than 100% purely to placate the change. It'll be 100% in a year or 2 and low handicappers will still probably win slightly more often than higher handicappers and still moan about the handicap allowance when they don't.

 

[duncan mackie]

You honestly think England Golf have not conducted research into establishing the fair allowance for 4BBB? I'm fairly certain they would have and if anything have still gone against it slightly by compromising on 90% rather than 100% purely to placate the change. It'll be 100% in a year or 2 and low handicappers will still probably win slightly more often than higher handicappers and still moan about the handicap allowance when they don't.

Completely agree. Huge theoretical and practical evidence to support it - and as keeps cropping up in these threads - it's the presumption by the lower handicap players that they have some right to win most of the time that is actually threatened by change. They still have significant advantage based on the theoretical strength of handicaps - but it's not as great in 4BBB as it was!

 

[Stuey01]

It must suck to be a low handicapper, judging by the huge amount of moaning.

 

[IanG]

I wonder if much of the perception of a low handicappers is to do with the distribution of handicaps. There are relatively few low handicappers, so if the handicap system is working perfectly and each match is a 50/50 outcome they will more regularly get beaten by high handicappers than low since they are simply playing against them so much more often.

 

[Norrin Radd]

90% still dosent make it fair for the higher capper.
and if you want use stats then it would need to be 105% difference .i think the lowers cappers would be squealing if they did that.
so until it is made 100%the lower boys have the advantage and will continue to do so ,according to stats.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Never had a problem with the full handicap allowance in singles matchplay. There's a good article on the CONGU site explaining the logic and it's hard to argue with tbh. When it comes to better ball though I think there is less of a clear cut case. The whole statistical theory behind handicapping is based around the premise that higher handicappers have more variance and their scores are more widely distributed. So they will have more "day's out" than lower players but will also have more nightmares. Surely this must correlate to scoring in individual rounds too. For example, a 20 handicapper may have 3 pars followed by an 8 and a 9 etc. If this is pairs better ball and the pair do a bit of "Tom and Jerry 'ing" then it's very hard to live with.....even low players don't actually get a raft of birdies every time they go out! I always thought that the reduced allowance of 3/4 was to address this......and worked pretty well.......I've never seen low handicappers cleaning up in 4BBB. In fact I'd say the winners come from the middle more often than not but that's just my perception. Maybe there are some stats? I'm really not moaning but I do think this will slew things towards higher handicaps in this type of event. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Crazyface]

My mate plays off 28 and to be honest....he can't really play to that. So it has been great fun to turn up to at his place to play in their invitation day knowing he's only going to get 19 shots so I'm basically on my own and I hate the course he plays at.
i'm looking forward to us being a competitive pairing next season at both our invitation days.

 

[chrisd]

i think the lowers cappers would be squealing if they did that.

From what I can see, the lower handicappers will set up their own comp and avoid the problem, much as they did when the singles changed to full allowance

 

[Joff]

They should just have divisional winners imho. Half combined handicap like a medal or stableford.

*dons flack hat*

 

[User20205]

It's part of the dumbing down of golf. Moving to full difference in singles & now 90% in 4bbb. There's no incentive for the ww's to improve.

 

[Fish]

I got knocked out of our winter league singles matchplay yesterday, I had 8 shots as he was a 12 handicapper, I thought I'd played 3 under handicap but after downloading my SkyCaddie this morning I was 5 under and I lost 2&1

Everyone has there day, this guy trumped mine, it happens, but when you look at those singles or pairs matches from higher handicapped players that take you out early doors, they don't often go on to win knockouts as consistency isn't in our remit.

Some pairs also dovetail very well, I'm looking forward to the new 90% allowance :smirk:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

90% still dosent make it fair for the higher capper.
and if you want use stats then it would need to be 105% difference .i think the lowers cappers would be squealing if they did that.
so until it is made 100%the lower boys have the advantage and will continue to do so ,according to stats.

I play plenty singles matchplay with 100% - doesn't bother me one single bit

Also looked through the thread and haven't seen a "low" HC moaning or complaining

 

[User20205]

I got knocked out of our winter league singles matchplay yesterday, I had 8 shots as he was a 12 handicapper, I thought I'd played 3 under handicap but after downloading my SkyCaddie this morning I was 5 under and I lost 2&1

Everyone has there day, this guy trumped mine, it happens, but when you look at those singles or pairs matches from higher handicapped players that take you out early doors, they don't often go on to win knockouts as consistency isn't in our remit.

Some pairs also dovetail very well, I'm looking forward to the new 90% allowance :smirk:

yep I bet you are, should make it 50% & give you an incentive to get rid of that chicken wing & get cut >>>>>:thup: