jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The trouble is that a lot of the guys and I have bad backs and not having to bend down to retrieve the ball for the sake of a 6 -10 inch putt is important to us.
The trouble is that a lot of the guys and I have bad backs and not having to bend down to retrieve the ball for the sake of a 6 -10 inch putt is important to us.
Nosevi
Head Pro
My Dad ha s a thing on the end of his putter which picks the ball out of the hole. Of course it stops seniors from effectively anchoring the putter so it's not for everyone
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
My Dad ha s a thing on the end of his putter which picks the ball out of the hole. Of course it stops seniors from effectively anchoring the putter so it's not for everyone
The trouble with those things is that a lot of players take no care of the hole and can often be seen resting the shaft on the side of the hole damaging it. There is one guy in our group whom I have had several goes at about doing it. " No I don't often comes back as the reply". We play pretty late in the morning and the cause of the damage to the hole is very obvious.
(mind you I do have one myself)
Nosevi
Head Pro
I think if people want to be thoughtless and not take care of the course (not repairing pitch marks, repairing the teeing area or replacing divots) they will do. It helps my old man out though and I've never seen him be anything but careful with it.
I think the point with all of this is that if your handicap is at least relatively stable it won't change all that much. At the moment all but Cat 1 can choose whether or not a social round is a 'supplementary' and it looks like that won't change at all. If you are rapidly improving or going the other way a system similar to that in the US has to be a better way to go.
Re the computer in the clubhouse going down, those without a computer or smartphone have to be in the minority now - in the US you input the scores yourself as you do here........ but you do it online through a computer or phone app rather than having to do it in the clubhouse.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Just to be clear, I can't understand the idea that Special treatment of Tournament scores will not be continued in the US yet the implication from an earlier post is that the R&A are considering only competition scores being included here where currently Supplementary scores are allowed for all but Cat 1. Just makes very little sense if the goal is to make handicaps around the world be directly comparable.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I take your point but given the vast majority of club golfers are a lot closer to a "handicap player" than a "scratch player", the slope rating will have a good deal more relevance as to how they perceive the difficulty of a course.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
You seem to have picked up odds and ends. The implication you have made isn't the case - competition rounds plus supplementals.
The US currently have an extremely loose approach to social scores, and it made sense to give an increased weighting to competition scores. Under the new scheme they are going to be tightening up on the scores included, and the relevance of a competition weighting obviously reduces.
The primary nature of the comparability is the ability to compete anywhere with your handicap index and simply plugging it to the competition course index data; its robustness, or accuracy, will always depend on elements outwwith control (selective play and even simple underachievment in card conditions). You can argue all you want about whether a handicap index will be more accurate if only proper competition scores are included or if you use every score and reduce the quality (as per the existing USGA approach) ie quality v quantity - there's no right answer!
the_coach
Journeyman Pro
World Handicap System Home FAQs
The way golfers around the world will calculate their handicaps is set to be transformed by a new system developed by the USGA and The R&A, with key features designed to provide all golfers with a consistent measure of playing ability.
The new World Handicap System, to be implemented in 2020, follows an extensive review of systems administered by six existing handicapping authorities: Golf Australia, the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU) in Great Britain and Ireland, the European Golf Association (EGA), the South African Golf Association (SAGA), the Argentine Golf Association (AAG) and the USGA.
The new system will feature the following:
• Flexibility in formats of play, allowing both competitive and recreational rounds to count for handicap purposes and ensuring that a golfer’s handicap is more reflective of potential ability
• A minimal number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap; a recommendation that the number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap be 54 holes from any combination of 18-hole and 9-hole rounds, but with some discretion available for national or regional associations to set a different minimum within their own jurisdiction
• A consistent handicap that is portable from course to course and country to country through worldwide use of the USGA Course and Slope Rating System, already successfully used in more than 80 countries
• An average-based calculation of a handicap, taken from the best eight out of the last 20 scores and factoring in memory of demonstrated ability for better responsiveness and control
• A calculation that considers the impact that abnormal course and weather conditions might have on a player’s performance each day
• Daily handicap revisions, taking account of the course and weather conditions calculation
• A limit of Net Double Bogey on the maximum hole score (for handicapping purposes only)
• A maximum handicap limit of 54.0, regardless of gender, to encourage more golfers to measure and track their performance to increase their enjoyment of the game
Quantitative research was conducted in 15 countries around the world, through which 76 percent of the 52,000 respondents voiced their support for a World Handicap System, 22 percent were willing to consider its benefits, and only 2 percent were opposed. This was followed by a series of focus groups, in which more than 300 golf administrators and golfers from regions around the world offered extensive feedback on the features of the proposed new system.
This feedback has helped shape the WHS, which has been developed by the USGA and The R&A with support from each existing handicapping authority as well as the Japan Golf Association and Golf Canada.
Mike Davis, CEO of the USGA, commented, “For some time, we’ve heard golfers say, ‘I’m not good enough to have a handicap,’ or ‘I don’t play enough to have a handicap.’ We want to make the right decisions now to encourage a more welcoming and social game. We’re excited to be taking another important step – along with modernizing golf’s Rules – to provide a pathway into the sport, making golf easier to understand and more approachable and enjoyable for everyone to play.â€
Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A, said, “We are working with our partners and national associations to make golf more modern, more accessible and more enjoyable as a sport and the new World Handicap System represents a huge opportunity in this regard.
“We want to make it more attractive to golfers to obtain a handicap and strip away some of the complexity and variation which can be off-putting for newcomers. Having a handicap, which is easier to understand and is truly portable around the world, can make golf much more enjoyable and is one of the unique selling points of our sport.â€
The tenets of the new system focus on three main objectives: to encourage as many golfers as possible to obtain and maintain a handicap; to enable golfers of differing abilities, genders and nationalities to transport their handicap to any course globally and compete on a fair basis; and to indicate with sufficient accuracy the score a golfer is reasonably capable of achieving on any course around the world, playing under normal conditions.
Given worldwide alignment towards a single system, all parties will now embark on a two-year transition period targeting implementation in 2020. When adopted, the World Handicap System will be governed by the USGA and The R&A and administered by national and regional associations around the world, with safeguards included to ensure consistency as well as adaptability to differing golf cultures.
The existing six handicapping authorities represent approximately 15 million golfers in 80 countries who currently maintain a golf handicap.
The announcement is the latest step in a multi-year collaboration between The USGA and The R&A, as well as national and regional golf associations around the world to introduce one set of Rules of Handicapping, aimed to support modernizing, growing and improving accessibility of the sport.
As an extension of their support of the Rules of Golf worldwide, Rolex has made a commitment to support the USGA’s and The R&A's efforts to implement a World Handicap System. The Swiss watchmaker’s contribution to excellence in golf is based on a rich heritage stretching back more than 50 years, forged through pivotal partnerships at every level of the game, from the sport’s leading professional and amateur competitions and organizations, to players at the pinnacle of their sport worldwide.
To provide feedback to the USGA on the new World Handicap System, email us at whsfeedback@usga.org?subject=World%20Handicap%20System%20Feedback, or see usga.org/whs. Golfers are encouraged to follow and join in the conversation on social media by using #GolfWHS2020.
The way golfers around the world will calculate their handicaps is set to be transformed by a new system developed by the USGA and The R&A, with key features designed to provide all golfers with a consistent measure of playing ability.
The new World Handicap System, to be implemented in 2020, follows an extensive review of systems administered by six existing handicapping authorities: Golf Australia, the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU) in Great Britain and Ireland, the European Golf Association (EGA), the South African Golf Association (SAGA), the Argentine Golf Association (AAG) and the USGA.
The new system will feature the following:
• Flexibility in formats of play, allowing both competitive and recreational rounds to count for handicap purposes and ensuring that a golfer’s handicap is more reflective of potential ability
• A minimal number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap; a recommendation that the number of scores needed to obtain a new handicap be 54 holes from any combination of 18-hole and 9-hole rounds, but with some discretion available for national or regional associations to set a different minimum within their own jurisdiction
• A consistent handicap that is portable from course to course and country to country through worldwide use of the USGA Course and Slope Rating System, already successfully used in more than 80 countries
• An average-based calculation of a handicap, taken from the best eight out of the last 20 scores and factoring in memory of demonstrated ability for better responsiveness and control
• A calculation that considers the impact that abnormal course and weather conditions might have on a player’s performance each day
• Daily handicap revisions, taking account of the course and weather conditions calculation
• A limit of Net Double Bogey on the maximum hole score (for handicapping purposes only)
• A maximum handicap limit of 54.0, regardless of gender, to encourage more golfers to measure and track their performance to increase their enjoyment of the game
Quantitative research was conducted in 15 countries around the world, through which 76 percent of the 52,000 respondents voiced their support for a World Handicap System, 22 percent were willing to consider its benefits, and only 2 percent were opposed. This was followed by a series of focus groups, in which more than 300 golf administrators and golfers from regions around the world offered extensive feedback on the features of the proposed new system.
This feedback has helped shape the WHS, which has been developed by the USGA and The R&A with support from each existing handicapping authority as well as the Japan Golf Association and Golf Canada.
Mike Davis, CEO of the USGA, commented, “For some time, we’ve heard golfers say, ‘I’m not good enough to have a handicap,’ or ‘I don’t play enough to have a handicap.’ We want to make the right decisions now to encourage a more welcoming and social game. We’re excited to be taking another important step – along with modernizing golf’s Rules – to provide a pathway into the sport, making golf easier to understand and more approachable and enjoyable for everyone to play.â€
Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A, said, “We are working with our partners and national associations to make golf more modern, more accessible and more enjoyable as a sport and the new World Handicap System represents a huge opportunity in this regard.
“We want to make it more attractive to golfers to obtain a handicap and strip away some of the complexity and variation which can be off-putting for newcomers. Having a handicap, which is easier to understand and is truly portable around the world, can make golf much more enjoyable and is one of the unique selling points of our sport.â€
The tenets of the new system focus on three main objectives: to encourage as many golfers as possible to obtain and maintain a handicap; to enable golfers of differing abilities, genders and nationalities to transport their handicap to any course globally and compete on a fair basis; and to indicate with sufficient accuracy the score a golfer is reasonably capable of achieving on any course around the world, playing under normal conditions.
Given worldwide alignment towards a single system, all parties will now embark on a two-year transition period targeting implementation in 2020. When adopted, the World Handicap System will be governed by the USGA and The R&A and administered by national and regional associations around the world, with safeguards included to ensure consistency as well as adaptability to differing golf cultures.
The existing six handicapping authorities represent approximately 15 million golfers in 80 countries who currently maintain a golf handicap.
The announcement is the latest step in a multi-year collaboration between The USGA and The R&A, as well as national and regional golf associations around the world to introduce one set of Rules of Handicapping, aimed to support modernizing, growing and improving accessibility of the sport.
As an extension of their support of the Rules of Golf worldwide, Rolex has made a commitment to support the USGA’s and The R&A's efforts to implement a World Handicap System. The Swiss watchmaker’s contribution to excellence in golf is based on a rich heritage stretching back more than 50 years, forged through pivotal partnerships at every level of the game, from the sport’s leading professional and amateur competitions and organizations, to players at the pinnacle of their sport worldwide.
To provide feedback to the USGA on the new World Handicap System, email us at whsfeedback@usga.org?subject=World%20Handicap%20System%20Feedback, or see usga.org/whs. Golfers are encouraged to follow and join in the conversation on social media by using #GolfWHS2020.
Nosevi
Head Pro
The odds and ends I picked up on was rulesfan sayin:
"That will be at the discretion of the relevant national handicapping authority.
The premise was/is that provision would be made for 'traditional ways'.
So 'all scores' or 'comp only' or a mixture would be available."
I read that to mean that it's a viable option for a national handicapping authority to choose option 2 ie 'comp only' rounds will count. As it's a joint venture by the USGA and R&A and there's no way on earth the USGA would consider only comp rounds counting I made the assumption the R&A must be considering this. Not the case? Why would it be an option?
I agree that the US method of being allowed to enter social rounds and in the past no marker or playing partner was required and the 'most likely score' could be inputted if the hole was not completed left a lot of room for vanity capping (like acres!) but if you're going to have a global system it should be a global system. Put in restrictions on rounds to be counted in one country that aren't there in the other and you automatically make the system no longer reflect exactly the same ability on both sides of the Pond which is one of the stated aims of the change.
The premise was/is that provision would be made for 'traditional ways'.
So 'all scores' or 'comp only' or a mixture would be available."
I read that to mean that it's a viable option for a national handicapping authority to choose option 2 ie 'comp only' rounds will count. As it's a joint venture by the USGA and R&A and there's no way on earth the USGA would consider only comp rounds counting I made the assumption the R&A must be considering this. Not the case? Why would it be an option?
I agree that the US method of being allowed to enter social rounds and in the past no marker or playing partner was required and the 'most likely score' could be inputted if the hole was not completed left a lot of room for vanity capping (like acres!) but if you're going to have a global system it should be a global system. Put in restrictions on rounds to be counted in one country that aren't there in the other and you automatically make the system no longer reflect exactly the same ability on both sides of the Pond which is one of the stated aims of the change.
rosecott
Money List Winner
I thought it was compulsory for Seniors to have a ball picker-up thingy on the end of the putter - and two tees tied together with cord.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
So separate male/female course ratings and some way to convert handicaps for mixed comps? i.e. same as now but using slope rather than SSS?
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
OK, having ploughed back through the various responses to specific questions etc etc I can see where you are coming from; however in another, non responsive post he stated "Just a reminder to those who haven't registered it yet. Social score entry will not be compulsory. The process will be virtually the same as the CONGU supplementary scores and it will be optional
Read more at http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?96212-World-Handicap-System/page13#pi2s2Z2th6QE64Ki.99" which would seem to remove the option you referenced (as does the high level marketing blurb).
I don't see handicaps reflecting exactly the same ability both sides of the pond as a stated aim anywhere - anyone who understands handicapping (and you clearly do) will realise you can't guarantee it across 2 clubs (Which is why at elite level there has always been a higher focus by those being judgemental on scores away from home).
The precise detail of how each authority will sell this will come out in due course; but given that they will all wish to highlight a no change position it will obviously be a little muddled for a couple of years and subsequent tweaking will also be inevitable.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Maybe it was just in there as a 'not really much of a change' option to quiet the masses. Truth is pre-declared 'social' scores being able to be inputted for handicap is a no change position for us, we just call them supplementary rounds......... well, all except Cat 1, and yet that seems to be what most are focusing on. The bigger change is the fact we are moving to a moving average (best 8 of 20) system from a system where each individual round effects your current handicap up or down, but that hardly seems to bother anyone.
Regarding the 'stated aim' of adopting a unified global system where the handicap should exactly reflect the same ability both sides of the Pond, I was just going by what the chap from the R&A said "The tenets of the new system focus on three main objectives............ to enable golfers of differing abilities, genders and nationalities to transport their handicap to any course globally and compete on a fair basis." Compete on a fair basis says to me the handicap should be an accurate measure of ability when you go to another country. Is this a realistic aim? A moot point perhaps, but it is a stated aim
I just wish we had a handicap system that did what it was supposed to do - reflect your current scoring potential today. For argument sake if we accept I'm a 5 capper playing to about scratch, and that I play 10 qualifiers a year which is not unreasonable, it'll take two and half years before our system will reflect that if I shoot scratch rounds every single comp I enter. Does our system do what it's supposed to do? In my case, no. Guys I tend to play against we only play off scratch anyway (they don't have handicaps), but a handicap becomes meaningless if it's tied to how good you were 2 years ago. For all sorts of reasons that's no longer the case for lots of people.
Eh? am i missing something here. if you are off 5 and are reg playing to scratch you will be getting cut every time you do unless the SSS is 5 below par that is.
jusme
Challenge Tour Pro
I think he's referring to a concern the changes leave with me. Best 8 of 20 scores. If you only submit 10 scores a year then it will take 2 years to make the changes. i doubt they will work like this, but he's not saying he plays to scratch now of a 5 cap.
Nosevi
Head Pro
No, you're not missing anything. I hit a 5 handicap in 2 years from initial handicap having had to give up Rugby due to injury and sort of found I had a talent for golf. I'm actually a 5.0 handicap but having put in some work over last autumn and winter (I have an indoor swing studio and launch monitor which Bobmac has used) my last 50 odd rounds say I'm playing to about scratch. I'm Cat 1 so can't put in supplementary cards and in comps every shot I play below handicap drops me 0.1 of a shot. So if I play to scratch next time out I'll be a 4.5. then a 4.1 . Now I just drop 0.4 for a scratch round - 3.7, 3.3 - now it's 0.3 - 3.0, 2.7, 2.4 - now 0.2 - 2.2, 2.2, 2.0, 1.8, 1.6, 1.4 - now 0.1 cut for each scratch round - 1.3, 1.2, 1.1, 1.0, 0.9, 0.8, 0.7, 0.6, 0.5, 0.4, 0.3, 0.2, 0.1, 0.0.
If from today I play to scratch every single time I step onto the tee it'll take me 27 comps for my handicap to reflect that ability. That, to me, seems like a system that can't cope with a fairly rapid improvement in ability.
Nosevi
Head Pro
I track pretty much all my social rounds (using strokes gained analysis mainly). Best 8 of last 20 rounds were -2, -1, -1, E, E, E, +1, +3. Works out at zero in my book
(course is par 72, SSS 73, but whites are a little up in the winter so call it SSS 72)
It's not really about me, the fact is what we have is designed for guys that have been playing years and going up a bit or down a bit. It's not really designed to show current performance.
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fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Thing is, youre criticising a whole system based on a very extreme example. Im not the systems biggest fan but since the introduction of ESRs most handicaps catch up pretty quickly, its only the rare example of someone who improves very quickly once a cat 1 that doesnt, and there are very few of them around (and most of them soon are more concerned with scratch comps anyway).
If youre that concerned about your handicap and want to get it down, play a handful of comps, prove it should be much lower, then write a letter to your club and/or county, if youre genuinely off that wrong a handicap they should reassess it
Dont forget, every one else that low got there based on the same system!
Nosevi
Head Pro
Everyone else that low generally got there having played the game for a while. I didn't - my initial handicap was just before I was 40 because I played different sports to that point.
And you're right I'm not a normal case but why should you have to 'put in the time' in order for your handicap to reflect ability? What is handicap supposed to show - how long you've played the game or how good you are? Our current system has a 'how long you've played the game' element, the new system will only care how good you are now. I'm not saying our current system is terrible (though it doesn't particularly work for me), just that the new system should better reflect current ability and will therefore be better.
And yes, I'm only interested in scratch comps. But some of those I'm aiming at have a 2 handicap max. Not a snag but will take me a while before I'm allowed to play in them.
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D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
I played it on holiday when at the ex-trossach hotel in August 2-3 years ago. Was very very wet in august and an honesty box and for instance we lost 2 balls in the fairway on the 18th due to the elevated tee and wet fairway iirc(calendar golf club was close due to water btw).
Certainly a fun course, bit quirky but I like quirky and was quite a lot of fun to play(loved one of the pars 4, driveable one if you went over the trees).
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