GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[Slab]

Both, if they satisfy the requirements above.

Thanks, what I expected. I just couldn’t see how two individuals scores could comply with the “The players individual score must count towards the team score” as noted above, when only one individual players score can possibly meet this requirement

 

[rulefan]

Thanks, what I expected. I just couldn’t see how two individuals scores could comply with the “The players individual score must count towards the team score” as noted above, when only one individual players score can possibly meet this requirement

See my alteration to #459. I misread your question

 

[Slab]

See my alteration to #459. I misread your question

thanks

Does that mean the 'X' in player B's score for that hole indicates they also scored 3pts but its non-counting for the team?

Hope I'm explaining myself ok here

 

[rulefan]

The example doesn't really show whether B also 'scored' 3 points but he scored after A had already scored 3 points. The implication is that he did and for this purpose he was only allocated 1.5. Presumably because there was now no pressure.

 

[Slab]

The example doesn't really show whether B also 'scored' 3 points but he scored after A had already scored 3 points. The implication is that he did and for this purpose he was only allocated 1.5. Presumably because there was now no pressure.

So when both players score same points the default is its whoever holes out first that gets their score recorded for the team
Is that written or just understood by all

 

[rulefan]

So when both players score same points the default is its whoever holes out first that gets their score recorded for the team
Is that written or just understood by all

I haven't found an explanation of what 'score doesn't count' is supposed to mean. But that is my interpretation.

I would be happier if someone could confirm or deny.

 

[woofers]

So when both players score same points the default is its whoever holes out first that gets their score recorded for the team
Is that written or just understood by all

That’s my understanding and the way I have always marked the physical scorecard.
However Rule 23.2b which covers a sides scorecard in strokeplay, allows both scores to be entered on the card.

 

[Slab]

That’s my understanding and the way I have always marked the physical scorecard.

Yeah me too but I'm not sure if I've always been 100% vigilant in that over the years, I think what I was trying to figure out in the context of this team format counting for individual handicap is:

The team stand on 18th tee with a team score of 42 points (so far)
Player A has 9 counting holes for the team
Player B has 8 counting holes for the team

Both score 3pts on 18th hole and Player A holed out before Player B
(assume they both now have at least 36 individual points)

Must the 3pt team score achieved on 18th hole be recorded against Player A given him 10 counting holes or is there any scope (or penalty) if it was noted against Player B so he could also achieve 9 counting holes ?

 

[IanM]

If @rulefan is asking for clarification, the rest of us are screwed!

 

[woofers]

Yeah me too but I'm not sure if I've always been 100% vigilant in that over the years, I think what I was trying to figure out in the context of this team format counting for individual handicap is:

The team stand on 18th tee with a team score of 42 points (so far)
Player A has 9 counting holes for the team
Player B has 8 counting holes for the team

Both score 3pts on 18th hole and Player A holed out before Player B
(assume they both now have at least 36 individual points)

Must the 3pt team score achieved on 18th hole be recorded against Player A given him 10 counting holes or is there any scope (or penalty) if it was noted against Player B so he could also achieve 9 counting holes ?

Nothing to say it must. (Although the marker would probably record it against A if that is the way the round has been marked so far, unless asked to put against B?).

 

[rulefan]

Yeah me too but I'm not sure if I've always been 100% vigilant in that over the years, I think what I was trying to figure out in the context of this team format counting for individual handicap is:

The team stand on 18th tee with a team score of 42 points (so far)
Player A has 9 counting holes for the team
Player B has 8 counting holes for the team

Both score 3pts on 18th hole and Player A holed out before Player B
(assume they both now have at least 36 individual points)

Must the 3pt team score achieved on 18th hole be recorded against Player A given him 10 counting holes or is there any scope (or penalty) if it was noted against Player B so he could also achieve 9 counting holes ?

My logic tells me that if A has already got the counting score B can't. Possibly the 'rules' should now require the marker to circle the first of equal scores.

 

[Slab]

My logic tells me that if A has already got the counting score B can't. Possibly the 'rules' should now require the marker to circle the first of equal scores.

Yeah up to now when asking a pair for their scores (as the marker) in the case or equal points do I always consciously recall which of them holed out first? I don't think I do
In fact I'm sure I don't, I write each gross score plus points for both players then their team points in the Result A/B , making no note of whether A or B is the contributor (in the case of equal points)

 

[wjemather]

Under the rules of golf, when both partners hole out, the lower score is the side's score; if partners score the same, either or both may be recorded but it's usual to only record the score for the first player to hole out.

For handicapping, if the score is recorded for both players, it is submitted for both players. However, "Handicap Committees will be justified in disregarding scores for handicapping purposes where scores for both players are recorded on a significant number of holes on a regular basis."

 

[rulie]

If I was keeping score, I'd write a result for both players on each hole. It's the committee's responsibility to sort after that.

 

[rulefan]

Have I got it right? The picture in post #457 suggests that if player B had 'no score' he would still get 1.5.

 

[wjemather]

Have I got it right? The picture in post #457 suggests that if player B had 'no score' he would still get 1.5.

If Player B scores 0 on a hole, they only get 1.5 points if player A gets 2 or more points on that hole; they get 1 point if A gets 1 point; and 0 if A also gets 0.

 

[clubchamp98]

Have I got it right? The picture in post #457 suggests that if player B had 'no score' he would still get 1.5.

Yes so that 1.5 pts from another player can affect your handicap.

You couldn’t make it up!

 

[D-S]

There are potentially some quite big swings, for example if you get 3 points and your partner gets 4 points then you are allocated 1.5 points, the same score as you would get if you scored 0 points.

"Handicap Committees will be justified in disregarding scores for handicapping purposes where scores for both players are recorded on a significant number of holes on a regular basis."
Given that very often these are Open competitions I can’t see how the handicap committee can have a clue about previous scoring patterns of visitors. I would like to think that strong advice is given to entrants that only one score per hole should be recorded unless it is 2 twos in a twos competition.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Yes so that 1.5 pts from another player can affect your handicap.

You couldn’t make it up!

It's a team game so probably not as daft as it sounds. But most likely score is simpler.

 

[clubchamp98]

It's a team game so probably not as daft as it sounds. But most likely score is simpler.

A team game that affects your individual handicap.
That’s just not right imo.
But seems to be the only tool they can come up with to stop the bandits.