World Handicap System

[duncan mackie]

this is interesting, so will people who are not members of Clubs in the UK be able to play Qual comps?

couple of guys i know who have US handicaps currently have a Congu one as well, but they are members of UK clubs, but what if you aren't?

Start by making the full shift - Q comps won't exist! Fundamentally by entering any competition that meets whatever new definition as suitable you will be signing up to a supplemental card - which will be played against the course and tee index and entered into your 'international handicap record'.
Entry will be up to the organisers, as currently, as will the distribution of any awards or prizes.
UK Club membership would be one route to having a 'current' handicap index; the concept of current is represented by (c) within CONGU and doesnt appear to have been fully specified going forwards (from what's been presented) and is no doubt in the pile of tba (along with the scope for a non club based handicap authority along the lines of the Metropolitan associations in the US - but I don't expect that in the UK on day one!

Caveat - all of this is based on whats in the public domain and a process of adding 2+2; this latter has been proven wrong before! Inwould add that in the example youngive they would (should) only have one home handicap authority going forward - world wide. Which may bring some challenges for linking the various record keeping systems internationally given the problems of maintaining CDH!

 

[patricks148]

Start by making the full shift - Q comps won't exist! Fundamentally by entering any competition that meets whatever new definition as suitable you will be signing up to a supplemental card - which will be played against the course and tee index and entered into your 'international handicap record'.
Entry will be up to the organisers, as currently, as will the distribution of any awards or prizes.
UK Club membership would be one route to having a 'current' handicap index; the concept of current is represented by (c) within CONGU and doesnt appear to have been fully specified going forwards (from what's been presented) and is no doubt in the pile of tba (along with the scope for a non club based handicap authority along the lines of the Metropolitan associations in the US - but I don't expect that in the UK on day one!

Caveat - all of this is based on whats in the public domain and a process of adding 2+2; this latter has been proven wrong before! Inwould add that in the example youngive they would (should) only have one home handicap authority going forward - world wide. Which may bring some challenges for linking the various record keeping systems internationally given the problems of maintaining CDH!

so with current info you still would not be able to turn up at a club in another country and play just like another member?

 

[duncan mackie]

so with current info you still would not be able to turn up at a club in another country and play just like another member?

You should be able to turn up and play at any event that you have met the entry criteria set by the organisers....so if you club runs all it's comps as opens; but they may not wish to do that?

Put another way, someone from Paris or California should be able to play as easily as someone from Kent.

 

[patricks148]

You should be able to turn up and play at any event that you have met the entry criteria set by the organisers....so if you club runs all it's comps as opens; but they may not wish to do that?

Put another way, someone from Paris or California should be able to play as easily as someone from Kent.

We are slope rated so i suppose they could have taken scores back the there home clubs on return.

I will have to ask our handicap sec what happens at the moment as we get guys play from overseas in the 4 day open we have. the first two rounds of these are qualifying. so wonder if they currently get adjusted?

 

[jim8flog]

Ok, perhaps I was overstating the case a little

I agree with the last comment, simply because of the restrictions currently placed on Cat 1 players that don't apply to others.

Still think the new system will generally be better at reflecting people's current scoring potential and once people have used it for a while and it becomes the norm most of the fears about slow play etc will be shown to not be an issue.

If I am understanding the new system correctly there will be no need for categories. What they are used for is to apply different differentials for downward adjustments and under the new system I expect that will disappear.

 

[jim8flog]

the concept of current is represented by (c) within CONGU and doesnt appear to have been fully specified going forwards

QUOTE]

I too was wondering that. I am wondering if the new system will require players to have submitted at least 8 cards for handicap purposes to have competition status.

 

[rulefan]

we will have handicap index applied to course and slope index for course and tee each time we play to give us a playing handicap for that occassion against par...

Did you mean the Course Rating? That's how you will know how well you played.

 

[rulefan]

We are slope rated so i suppose they could have taken scores back the there home clubs on return.

I will have to ask our handicap sec what happens at the moment as we get guys play from overseas in the 4 day open we have. the first two rounds of these are qualifying. so wonder if they currently get adjusted?

Many, if not all, USGA visitors to Scotland, Ireland and continental Europe, where USGA slope is already universal, do take their scores home. This is real portability.
Unlike not so long ago when players returning from Spain and Portugal with record low scores were demanding multiple shot handicap reductions. The fact that they had no idea about CR but were using par as the measure, didn't cross their minds.

 

[rulefan]

We are slope rated so i suppose they could have taken scores back the there home clubs on return.

I will have to ask our handicap sec what happens at the moment as we get guys play from overseas in the 4 day open we have. the first two rounds of these are qualifying. so wonder if they currently get adjusted?

Presumably the competition is played off scratch.

I cant see a provision for overseas scores to be returned in European countries in the EGA book

 

[rulefan]

the concept of current is represented by (c) within CONGU and doesnt appear to have been fully specified going forwards

QUOTE]

I too was wondering that. I am wondering if the new system will require players to have submitted at least 8 cards for handicap purposes to have competition status.

Competition status has not been mentioned.
I suspect it will disappear as the concept is not in the EGA system either

 

[Grant85]

To slightly hijack this thread on handicaps, perhaps someone can answer me this.

I have not not had a handicap since I was last a GC member in September 2016.

If if I was to join somewhere else do you think I would start on the same handicap I had. Or they would ask me to put in 3cards and work the new handicap out on that.
Or they would still want 3cards but would still take my previous handicap into account?

i guess the secretary at wherever I joined would have discretion, but does anyone know what the likely position would be?

 

[fundy]

To slightly hijack this thread on handicaps, perhaps someone can answer me this.

I have not not had a handicap since I was last a GC member in September 2016.

If if I was to join somewhere else do you think I would start on the same handicap I had. Or they would ask me to put in 3cards and work the new handicap out on that.
Or they would still want 3cards but would still take my previous handicap into account?

i guess the secretary at wherever I joined would have discretion, but does anyone know what the likely position would be?

they will want 3 cards but take your previous handicap into account

ill be in the same boat if i havent joined somewhere new by may

 

[duncan mackie]

To slightly hijack this thread on handicaps, perhaps someone can answer me this.

I have not not had a handicap since I was last a GC member in September 2016.

If if I was to join somewhere else do you think I would start on the same handicap I had. Or they would ask me to put in 3cards and work the new handicap out on that.
Or they would still want 3cards but would still take my previous handicap into account?

i guess the secretary at wherever I joined would have discretion, but does anyone know what the likely position would be?

No real discretion, other than the way in which your previous handicap is taken into account relative to the 3 cards put in. Ie - thats the requirement but without a defined process as to what that means in practice!

 

[duncan mackie]

Did you mean the Course Rating? That's how you will know how well you played.

No, I meant par - but I am probably wrong.

In thought that the course rating was a function of the difficulty of shooting par and reflected in the slope index used to calculate the course handicap to be played from (and measured to par).

If you are playing against the course rating (as we currently do) why do you need to adjust the handicap as well?

 

[rulefan]

No, I meant par - but I am probably wrong.

In thought that the course rating was a function of the difficulty of shooting par and reflected in the slope index used to calculate the course handicap to be played from (and measured to par).

If you are playing against the course rating (as we currently do) why do you need to adjust the handicap as well?

His base handicap index reflects the underlying scoring ability of the player. This must be based on the difficulty (for him) of the courses he has played.
Par is not a measure of difficulty. The Course Rating is exactly that but for a scratch player. However, because of the position and nature of obstacles on the course, a high handicap player (say a 20 capper called a bogey player) may or may not encounter the same or different obstacles. This may make the particular course relatively more or less difficult. So the course is rated for this player. A Course is a particular set of tees on a particular piece of land (eg yellow or white etc)
The Slope is a gradient on a graph reflecting this relative difficulty for this course. All courses will have their own Course Rating, Bogey Rating and Slope. In very simple terms, a player looks at a chart at the course. Selects the tees he is to play and finds his handicap index and is given a number which reflect the position on the slope graph. Adding that number to his index gives him his playing handicap.

The measure of his achievement is how his net score compares with the Course Rating.

I hope you haven't felt I was talking down to you but it is the best way I could explain it. But I can point you to a more technical explanation if you really want me to.

 

[Jacko_G]

According to the USPGA rules, for a card to count you have to play at least 7 holes within the laws for a 9 hole submission and 13 holes for an 18 hole submission. So if on some holes you don't hole out according to the USPGA you should record a net par.

But if they are genuine gimmes, say within 3 feet, they should be simple putts anyway. Just get in the habit of holing out

Within 3 feet a gimme!!!! Jeeezo can I play in your 4 ball. I've missed numerous times from within 3 feet and know golfers I wouldn't give a 1 foot putt too if there was any sort of pressure.

 

[MadAdey]

Not really got time to read through every post on this thread, but with being from the UK and now playing under the USGA system, I love it. Sandbaggers really aren't that much of a problem, because clubs have a great way of combating it. When you enter a competition the round is entered automatically into the handicapping system to stop people from playing at an away club cleaning up but never actually declaring the round so not seeing a handicap reduction, not sure if that is still a problem in the UK but I know it was.

The other thing that happens is that you are made to play off the lowest handicap you have held in the last 12 months. So go out and get yourself a higher handicap by putting in some dodgy rounds, guess what you may have up from 10 to 15, but your still gonna be playing off 10.

 

[chrisd]

The other thing that happens is that you are made to play off the lowest handicap you have held in the last 12 months. So go out and get yourself a higher handicap by putting in some dodgy rounds, guess what you may have up from 10 to 15, but your still gonna be playing off 10.

How do they manage that one, so a current handicap is worthless?

 

[MadAdey]

How do they manage that one, so a current handicap is worthless?

No not at all. Let's be honest here, who couldn't play to the lowest handicap they have held in the last 12 months? If you've played to that level in the last 12 months then that is what you should be playing off, not a handicap that you sandbagged up a few shots. If you played well enough to say have a 10 handicap that isn't just calculated from a single round, but the average of your best cards over 20 rounds.

 

[rulefan]

1) This probably won't continue into the WHS.
2) Tournaments are only elite competitions aimed at (in CONGU terms) Club gross championship, county or national level


Tournament Scores
Q. What is the purpose of the "Tournament Score " procedure?
A. To identify players who excel in competition well beyond their current USGA Handicap Indexes.

Q. How should a player post a tournament score?
A. The tournament score, when posted, should be identified by a "T."

Q. What is the effect of a tournament score on a player's USGA Handicap Index?
A. A player whose scoring record includes two or more tournament scores that are exceptionally (three or more strokes) lower than his or her USGA Handicap Index will be subject to a reduction in Handicap Index. If your club uses a computation service, the adjustment is probably done automatically. If not, the Handicap Committee must follow the procedure shown in the manual. After a Handicap Index has been reduced, the Committee can further reduce or override the reduction of a Handicap Index. A USGA Handicap Index reduction for exceptional tournament scores is calculated at each handicap revision and may vary from revision to revision based on factors outlined in Section 10-3.

Q. What qualifies as a "Tournament"?
A. The committee in charge of a competition announces before play whether the competition will result in a "tournament score" when posted. Tournament scores are generally reserved for competitions that, in the judgment of the committee, are significant in the traditions, schedules, formats and membership of the club. Weekly play days should not be designated as tournament scores.