World Handicap System

[Jamesbrown]

When I went to one of the focus groups, main priority we left them with was bandits. They’ll always be sandbaggers, but to make it a lot harder.

We was shown a player profile and how they would do it.
There is something to be put in place but can’t remember what it was.
You won’t go up as much as you think you will if you have poor rounds on the bounce though.

Some computer wizardry and Pythagoras algorithms won’t allow it based on previous scores.

 

[patricks148]

Presumably the competition is played off scratch.

I cant see a provision for overseas scores to be returned in European countries in the EGA book

no, there is a scratch section, but also handicap. the first two rounds are stoke play to qualify. these are both handicap qualifying for the home based golfers. last time i played one i got a cut in the first round. just wondering what happens to oversea's. if it were the other way we would self adjust to the SSS i f they had one (maybe)

 

[duncan mackie]

His base handicap index reflects the underlying scoring ability of the player. This must be based on the difficulty (for him) of the courses he has played.
Par is not a measure of difficulty. The Course Rating is exactly that but for a scratch player. However, because of the position and nature of obstacles on the course, a high handicap player (say a 20 capper called a bogey player) may or may not encounter the same or different obstacles. This may make the particular course relatively more or less difficult. So the course is rated for this player. A Course is a particular set of tees on a particular piece of land (eg yellow or white etc)
The Slope is a gradient on a graph reflecting this relative difficulty for this course. All courses will have their own Course Rating, Bogey Rating and Slope. In very simple terms, a player looks at a chart at the course. Selects the tees he is to play and finds his handicap index and is given a number which reflect the position on the slope graph. Adding that number to his index gives him his playing handicap.

The measure of his achievement is how his net score compares with the Course Rating.

I hope you haven't felt I was talking down to you but it is the best way I could explain it. But I can point you to a more technical explanation if you really want me to.

Not at all. Well worded thank you.

So, in a nutshell and with examples, a scr golfer will play of scr regardless of the course rating, but a 28 will play of 14 on the easiest course (rated 55) or 38 on a 155 course because of the effect of slope?

 

[rulefan]

Not at all. Well worded thank you.

So, in a nutshell and with examples, a scr golfer will play of scr regardless of the course rating, but a 28 will play of 14 on the easiest course (rated 55) or 38 on a 155 course because of the effect of slope?

I think you have mixed up Course Rating and Slope.
Course Rating is the direct equivalent of SSS in CONGU using the USGA rating method.

Slope Ratings range from 55 to 155, with the average being 113.

When you play a course with a Slope Rating higher than 113, your Course Handicap will be higher than your USGA Handicap Index. When you play a course with a Slope Rating lower than 113, your Course Handicap will be lower than your Handicap Index.

The chart I mentioned is in fact a fast path to the following calculation shown in a Course Handicap Table
Handicap Index (decimal) x Slope/113 = Course Handicap (Rounded conventionally)

To convert a Handicap Index to a Course Handicap, a player takes the Handicap Index to a Course Handicap Table to find the corresponding Course Handicap. Each set of rated tees will have a different Course Handicap Table for men and women based on its Slope Rating.


The following is a table for course with a slope of 140

Handicap Index	Course Handicap	Handicap Index	Course Handicap
+3.6 to +2.9	+4	16.6 to 17.3	21
+2.8 to +2.1	+3	17.4 to 18.1	22
+2.0 to +1.3	+2	18.2 to 18.9	23
+1.2 to +5	+1	19.0 to 19.7	24
+.4 to.4	0	19.8 to 20.5	25
.5 to 1.2	1	20.6 to 21.3	26
1.3 to 2.0	2	21.4 to 22.1	27
2.1 to 2.8	3	22.2 to 23.0	28
2.9 to 3.6	4	23.1 to 23.8	29
3.7 to 4.4	5	23.9 to 24.6	30
4.5 to 5.2	6	24.7 to 25.4	31
5.3 to 6.0	7	25.5 to 26.2	32
6.1 to 6.8	8	26.3 to 27.0	33
6.9 to 7.6	9	27.1 to 27.8	34
7.7 to 8.4	10	27.9 to 28.6	35
8.5 to 9.2	11	28.7 to 29.4	36
9.3 to 10.0	12	29.5 to 30.2	37
10.1 to 10.8	13	30.3 to 31.0	38
10.9 to 11.7	14	31.1 to 31.8	39
11.8 to 12.5	15	31.9 to 32.6	40
12.6 to 13.3	16	32.7 to 33.4	41
13.4 to 14.1	17	33.5 to 34.3	42
14.2 to 14.9	18	34.4 to 35.1	43
15.0 to 15.7	19	35.2 to 35.9	44
15.8 to 16.5	20	36.0 to 36.4	45

 

[duncan mackie]

I think you have mixed up Course Rating and Slope.
Course Rating is the direct equivalent of SSS in CONGU using the USGA rating method.
Read more at http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...ld-Handicap-System/page21#oYoFmOJTTQJmvkWg.99

Sorry - I was overly lax with my wording in that response (rather than my thinking as in the earlier confused one).

The examples I gave were for handicap index against slope rating (of course/tee combinations)

 

[SteveJay]

World Handicap System Home FAQs

“We want to make it more attractive to golfers to obtain a handicap and strip away some of the complexity and variation which can be off-putting for newcomers. Having a handicap, which is easier to understand and is truly portable around the world, can make golf much more enjoyable and is one of the unique selling points of our sport.”

Jeez, being a relative newcomer to club membership and CONGU handicapping, this thread has confused me totally!
How on earth can this be promoted as being less complex and easier to understand!!!!!

 

[rulefan]

Jeez, being a relative newcomer to club membership and CONGU handicapping, this thread has confused me totally!
How on earth can this be promoted as being less complex and easier to understand!!!!!

Handicapping is complex full stop.
Comparing them is doubly so.
Just let others do the work for the present and get to grips with the new one as it evolves. You have a great advantage in seeing it built

 

[garyinderry]

Will brand new players be required to play 8 rounds now to gain a handicap?

 

[rulefan]

Will brand new players be required to play 8 rounds now to gain a handicap?

No. As it says in the press release. 3 x 18 hole rounds.

 

[jusme]

This 8 from 20 interests me as to how it will initially be implemented. If starting from day one say 1st January 2020, will it take 8 rounds or more (say 20) before any handicap changes or will they be looking back at the last 20 rounds in 2019

 

[clubchamp98]

No. As it says in the press release. 3 x 18 hole rounds.

Can you foresee certain players trying to increase their h/cap for an upcoming match or major comp ,board comp.

If caps can rise and fall more than at present this would be a worry.

Especially if social rounds are counted.
Someone off 9.3 could play 36 holes on Friday with his mates and be off 10 (9.5) for his match Saturday morning.

Is there any provision to monitor this?.

 

[rulefan]

This 8 from 20 interests me as to how it will initially be implemented. If starting from day one say 1st January 2020, will it take 8 rounds or more (say 20) before any handicap changes or will they be looking back at the last 20 rounds in 2019

I gather the US conversion will be different to the UK & Europe. It has not been announced yet but the US will probably either start with the current handicap and recalculate the best 8 average when the next score is returned or do a big bang on day 1 and recalculate the best 8 average.
CONGU (and I guess Europe) will, on day one, trawl back for the last 20 scores in the player's history and calculate a new handicap. They are looking at a formula for those players with less than 20 recorded scores. It's not clear whether they will use the CDH or the clubs' records. But all the CDH data is either in the current view or has been archived. Many clubs have purged 'old' records, particularly if they have changed ISV.

 

[rulefan]

Can you foresee certain players trying to increase their h/cap for an upcoming match or major comp ,board comp.

If caps can rise and fall more than at present this would be a worry.

Especially if social rounds are counted.
Someone off 9.3 could play 36 holes on Friday with his mates and be off 10 (9.5) for his match Saturday morning.

Is there any provision to monitor this?.

Remember, so called casual rounds will have to be 'attested' to count. Essentially as supplementary scores.
One would expect (hope) that handicap secs/committees will be monitoring non comp scores.

Of course two bad scores are unlikely to have any effect. It is only the best 8 from the last 20 that are averaged. He will no longer get 0.1 for a bad round.

 

[Fish]

I haven’t read all the comments in this thread, but I was invited & involved in a workshop with the PGA & USGA where all areas of consolidating the handicap system was discussed and what was hopefully going to be rolled out.

Lots of positive comments & negative concerns were aired and the proposed system was still to be tweaked based on our UK workshop findings and workshops that were taking place across world to reach as much of a common acceptance as possible.

I can’t remember the exact figures but I think we have at least 6 different handicap systems across the world which is confusing when travelling and playing courses both socially and for competitions, so unifying the handicap system is a good change imo, but like many things in the golfing fraternity, change is a dirty word and can be met by the draconian ‘let’s not change anything’ brigade, as it doesn’t affect them personally.

What I liked from the presentation was the fact that your handicap changed over a number (block) of rounds, meaning that you might play crap for the last 4 rounds in your block but your mean average was still good from previous rounds in the block and you could still obtain a cut!

I’ve got loads of notes on it all from the workshop and I even featured in the video that’s being rolled out now 😎

 

[jim8flog]

Can you foresee certain players trying to increase their h/cap for an upcoming match or major comp ,board comp.

If caps can rise and fall more than at present this would be a worry.

Especially if social rounds are counted.
Someone off 9.3 could play 36 holes on Friday with his mates and be off 10 (9.5) for his match Saturday morning.

Is there any provision to monitor this?.

That can almost happen with current system anyway.

Interesting point though- will the new system allow two cards on one day? The current only allows one.

 

[Sweep]

If golf has any problems, the current handicap system isn’t one of them. Now, I will be the first to say that none of us have full details yet and that we should give the new system a chance, however an awful lot of priority, effort and I guess money seems to have been put into fixing something that wasn’t broken, Seemingly so on the very odd occasion two people from places far flung from each other can have a good game of golf. Something that happens now anyway.

No system is perfect. The current system’s 3 rounds a year to validate an “C” prefix was far too few and invited banditry, but other than that it works extremely well. I am not against change but I am failing to see what great advantage this new system will bring.

As far as I can tell, handicaps will fluctuate more rapidly and it will be more difficult to calculate what your handicap will be after each return without the computer telling you. So what happens if the computer is down? Will it still be the player’s responsibility to calculate and declare their own handicap? What about comps open only to players over or under certain handicaps? Is it best to avoid booking those if you are within a shot or two a couple of months before?

Unless it will be a lot easier to calculate your own rise or fall than it seems, I think the powers that be have missed an important aspect in the case of regular and keen golfers like most of us on here, especially club members. Many such golfers enjoy the challenge of getting their handicap down. Under the current system you easily know what you have do to attain a goal and you know a bad round results in a 0.1 increase. It seems that aspect will be gone.

I am a big fan of the slope system and bringing that in here in the UK is a very positive move IMO. However, will the World Handicap System be dependent on the slope system being in place? The last time I went to a meeting on this there were very few assessors in place and full implementation was years away. If that is still the case, 2020 is fantasy.

 

[duncan mackie]

That can almost happen with current system anyway.

Interesting point though- will the new system allow two cards on one day? The current only allows one.

36 hole comps seem to go through fine under current...

 

[Old Skier]

One would expect (hope) that handicap secs/committees will be monitoring non comp scores.e

One of the problems of it IMO. Governing bodies seem to think that all clubs have the luxury of a club secretary and someone available all the time to do admin.

 

[Imurg]

If golf has any problems, the current handicap system isn’t one of them. Now, I will be the first to say that none of us have full details yet and that we should give the new system a chance, however an awful lot of priority, effort and I guess money seems to have been put into fixing something that wasn’t broken, Seemingly so on the very odd occasion two people from places far flung from each other can have a good game of golf. Something that happens now anyway.

No system is perfect. The current system’s 3 rounds a year to validate an “C” prefix was far too few and invited banditry, but other than that it works extremely well. I am not against change but I am failing to see what great advantage this new system will bring.

As far as I can tell, handicaps will fluctuate more rapidly and it will be more difficult to calculate what your handicap will be after each return without the computer telling you. So what happens if the computer is down? Will it still be the player’s responsibility to calculate and declare their own handicap? What about comps open only to players over or under certain handicaps? Is it best to avoid booking those if you are within a shot or two a couple of months before?

Unless it will be a lot easier to calculate your own rise or fall than it seems, I think the powers that be have missed an important aspect in the case of regular and keen golfers like most of us on here, especially club members. Many such golfers enjoy the challenge of getting their handicap down. Under the current system you easily know what you have do to attain a goal and you know a bad round results in a 0.1 increase. It seems that aspect will be gone.

I am a big fan of the slope system and bringing that in here in the UK is a very positive move IMO. However, will the World Handicap System be dependent on the slope system being in place? The last time I went to a meeting on this there were very few assessors in place and full implementation was years away. If that is still the case, 2020 is fantasy.

I asked some of these questions a hundred or so posts ago..not sure I've seen any answers or suggestions for answers....

 

[BTatHome]

Unless it will be a lot easier to calculate your own rise or fall than it seems, I think the powers that be have missed an important aspect in the case of regular and keen golfers like most of us on here, especially club members. Many such golfers enjoy the challenge of getting their handicap down. Under the current system you easily know what you have do to attain a goal and you know a bad round results in a 0.1 increase. It seems that aspect will be gone.

The best way to reduce your handicap will be to shoot the best score you can on the day and beat your handicap .... whilst it may not guarantee a reduction in the new system it will give you the best chance .... which is pretty much like the CSS system at the moment too 😉