World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

I interpreted what rulefan said as implying that the differentials used would just be gross score against CSS.
He didn't mention de-sloping, and I probably got the wrong end of the stick.

As the question was about SSS or CSS I just answered that point. De-sloping was a given.
I intended to imply that CSS embraced the PCC concept in that CSS was the 'equivalent' of CR and PCC together

 

[larmen]

Just as an FYI, I have set up a small spreadsheet for my handicap, and listed the last 20 scores. For each line, I have the date, course rating (based on tee), gross score and a number showing the order in which the scores will disappear, as they become the 21st score and thus fall out of the calc. Then I sort by score, calculate the mean gross (all off same tees), deduct the course rating, x 113/142 (slope) and that gives me an approx handicap.

So I know that for my scores, my 8th best score is about to expire next time I submit a card, so if I do better than that score, the HI will drop, but if I don't the score will be replaced by the current 9th best score, which is only 1 higher than the 8th, so will have a very minor effect. I also know that my 3rd best score will expire in 4 rounds time, so I need to get a couple of decent scores on the board to make up for it.

I am learning Python at the moment and that pretty much is what I have in my spec sheet as wel for a little project to apply the skills. I added to it 'unofficial rounds' I play that are not handicap counting and where my handicap could be. That way I think I can compare my competition performance against my others and/or overall. Especially once the courses are properly sloped as well. I think the whites go into my head and add a handful of strokes, even with only 2 or 3 holes really playing that much different.

Where I am struggling is my understanding of a 9 hole round and how to fit it in (not really important as they are all unofficial anyway) and I don't find a slope for that course anyway.

I think learning a tool or language is much easier when doing it with data you are interested in.

 

[Ethan]

I am learning Python at the moment and that pretty much is what I have in my spec sheet as wel for a little project to apply the skills. I added to it 'unofficial rounds' I play that are not handicap counting and where my handicap could be. That way I think I can compare my competition performance against my others and/or overall. Especially once the courses are properly sloped as well. I think the whites go into my head and add a handful of strokes, even with only 2 or 3 holes really playing that much different.

Where I am struggling is my understanding of a 9 hole round and how to fit it in (not really important as they are all unofficial anyway) and I don't find a slope for that course anyway.

I think learning a tool or language is much easier when doing it with data you are interested in.

That is a good idea, although I don't really play non-qualifying rounds. I tend to get one round in a week, and our club offers an opt-in stablefordon Sat and Sun if there isn't a medal or other comp, so I invariably enter that.

 

[howbow88]

I've done some reading but am looking for some clarification on this rough scenario...

Player A has a handicap index of 5, player B has a handicap index of 25. They turn up to a very tight, but fairly short course and are playing off tees which give a total distance of 6000 yards. Trees everywhere and if you go right or left, you're in big trouble.

My understanding of what I've read so far, would be that player A for this sort of course will probably be playing that day around their handicap index of 5 - they're less likely to hit it left and right, and it isn't a long course. Player B will likely have shots added on for that particular course, because although it isn't long, they are likely to spray it about...

Would that be a fair simplification?

 

[rulefan]

I've done some reading but am looking for some clarification on this rough scenario...

Player A has a handicap index of 5, player B has a handicap index of 25. They turn up to a very tight, but fairly short course and are playing off tees which give a total distance of 6000 yards. Trees everywhere and if you go right or left, you're in big trouble.

My understanding of what I've read so far, would be that player A for this sort of course will probably be playing that day around their handicap index of 5 - they're less likely to hit it left and right, and it isn't a long course. Player B will likely have shots added on for that particular course, because although it isn't long, they are likely to spray it about...

Would that be a fair simplification?

Pretty well. Does your imagined course have a low Course Rating and a high Slope rating? That would produce the outcome you describe.

 

[woofers]

That's a fair simplification, they will both have the same % or ratio increase to their handicap index based on the course slope rating. As A has a low handicap index his increase will be corresponding lower than B's.
For example on a course with a slope rating of 125, A would have a course handicap of (125/113 * 5)= 5.53 and B (125/113 * 25)= 27.65.
Playing in an individual event their competition handicaps would be, A 5.53*95% = 5.25(5) and B 27.65*95%= 26.26 (26).

 

[rulefan]

Playing in an individual event their competition handicaps would be, A 5.53*95% = 5.25(5) and B 27.65*95%= 26.26 (26).

'Playing handicaps'

 

[howbow88]

Cheers guys

 

[nickjdavis]

That's a fair simplification, they will both have the same % or ratio increase to their handicap index based on the course slope rating. As A has a low handicap index his increase will be corresponding lower than B's.
For example on a course with a slope rating of 125, A would have a course handicap of (125/113 * 5)= 5.53 and B (125/113 * 25)= 27.65.
Playing in an individual event their competition handicaps would be, A 5.53*95% = 5.25(5) and B 27.65*95%= 26.26 (26).

I'm not sure that is quite correct (but happy to be shown the error of my ways)

A's course handicap would be (125/113*5) = 5.53 which would be rounded to 6. 95% of 6 would be 5.7 which would result in a playing handicap of 6.

B's course handicap would be (125/113*25) = 27.65 which would be rounded to 28. 95% of 28 would be 26.6 which would result in a playing handicap of 27.

I know that a while ago it was suggested that rounding only took place at then end of all calculations but this is simply not practical. If I turn up to play and only have the physical course rating tables to look at (i.e no computer/app) then all course handicaps in the tables are displayed as integers....therefore all playing handicap must surely be calculated using the integer course handicap (not decimal)...???

 

[Orikoru]

Way too complicated with all the numbers people are throwing about. The existing system is so much easier to understand. I think the positive might be that I stop worrying about how my handicap will be affected by a round when I haven't got the foggiest clue anyway.

 

[Old Skier]

Way too complicated with all the numbers people are throwing about. The existing system is so much easier to understand. I think the positive might be that I stop worrying about how my handicap will be affected by a round when I haven't got the foggiest clue anyway.

I wouldn’t mind betting the same things were said with the introduction of the SSS/CSS system.

 

[Orikoru]

I wouldn’t mind betting the same things were said with the introduction of the SSS/CSS system.

Dunno mate. That's all I've ever known.

 

[woofers]

From the slides at the WHS presentation by England Golf:

Playing Handicap Calculation
The calculation of a Playing Handicap is an adjustment to the Course Handicap by any handicap allowances in operation for the format of play:
Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance = Playing Handicap
Example:
This event is a Singles Stroke Play Competition.
Course Handicap 16.4 x Allowance 95% = Playing Handicap 15.5 (16)

 

[woofers]

Way too complicated with all the numbers people are throwing about. The existing system is so much easier to understand. I think the positive might be that I stop worrying about how my handicap will be affected by a round when I haven't got the foggiest clue anyway.

You shouldn’t have to do any of the calculations yourself, there should be a lookup chart for your course handicap.

 

[Bert]

Listen to this if you have a spare hour. It’s brilliant and explains everything simply.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rick-shiels-golf-show/id1406443091?i=1000485494331

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You shouldn’t have to do any of the calculations yourself, there should be a lookup chart for your course handicap.

I know there are club members who take on positions of handicap sec etc- and I am grateful that they do all this work for the rest of us.
From what I can read here, it is they who need to know all these calculations etc.
As an ordinary member playing maybe a stableford comp once a week or so, am I correct in thinking that all I need to know about this system is what my handicap index is? So,
When I turn up to play the competition, I enter my details into the computer, give my handicap index and then I am informed what my handicap is for that competition, the computer having made all these calculations?

Well, I hope that's all I have to do?

 

[nickjdavis]

From the slides at the WHS presentation by England Golf:

Playing Handicap Calculation
The calculation of a Playing Handicap is an adjustment to the Course Handicap by any handicap allowances in operation for the format of play:
Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance = Playing Handicap
Example:
This event is a Singles Stroke Play Competition.
Course Handicap 16.4 x Allowance 95% = Playing Handicap 15.5 (16)

Yep I get this....but if you use the Course Handicap Tables (which will be "published" either somewhere in the clubhouse or by the first tee) to determine your course handicap....these tables only give you your course handicap as in integer. The slides from the WHS presentations shows Course Handicap as a number to 1 decimal place.

You cannot have one set of golfers determining their playing handicap by doing 95% * 5.5 = 5.225 = 5 and another set doing 95%*6= 5.7 = 6. That's just crazy.

There has got to be consistency so two gofers playing the same course, off the same handicap arrive at the same playing handicap, irrespective of whether they used the Course Handicap Tables to determine their course handicap or an electronic terminal or mobile app.

 

[rulefan]

I know there are club members who take on positions of handicap sec etc- and I am grateful that they do all this work for the rest of us.
From what I can read here, it is they who need to know all these calculations etc.
As an ordinary member playing maybe a stableford comp once a week or so, am I correct in thinking that all I need to know about this system is what my handicap index is? So,
When I turn up to play the competition, I enter my details into the computer, give my handicap index and then I am informed what my handicap is for that competition, the computer having made all these calculations?

Well, I hope that's all I have to do?

That's it.
In fact, handicap secs don't need to know much more. In the same way that no one needs to know how to do the CSS calculation under CONGU

 

[IanG]

You cannot have one set of golfers determining their playing handicap by doing 95% * 5.5 = 5.225 = 5 and another set doing 95%*6= 5.7 = 6. That's just crazy.

This rounding issue has been floating around for ages and there seems to be no definitive answer about what procedure will be adopted. Three months out from rollout you would think the software vendors will have been told what to implement so why is not being released to the public?

 

[jim8flog]

Where I am struggling is my understanding of a 9 hole round and how to fit it in (not really important as they are all unofficial anyway) and I don't find a slope for that course anyway.

Look at the slope rating Data base and you may find the slope rating for the 9 hole on there

https://ncrdb.usga.org/

5.1b For a 9-hole Score
A 9-hole score is scaled up to an equivalent 18-hole Score Differential for
immediate use in the scoring record.
l A 9-hole score is scaled up to an equivalent 18-hole Score Differential by
adding net pars for the remaining holes plus one additional stroke (which is
applied to the first hole not played)*,
l The second 9 holes used for scaling up is always the same 9 holes that have
been played.
A 9-hole score is scaled up to an equivalent 18-hole Score Differential as follows
and rounded to the nearest tenth, with .5 rounded upwards:

Score Differential = (113 ÷Slope Rating) x (adjusted gross score –Course Rating – (0.5 x PCC adjustment))



* i.e. 17 points in Stableford format