World Handicap System (WHS)

[jim8flog]

I've done some reading but am looking for some clarification on this rough scenario...

Player A has a handicap index of 5, player B has a handicap index of 25. They turn up to a very tight, but fairly short course and are playing off tees which give a total distance of 6000 yards. Trees everywhere and if you go right or left, you're in big trouble.

My understanding of what I've read so far, would be that player A for this sort of course will probably be playing that day around their handicap index of 5 - they're less likely to hit it left and right, and it isn't a long course. Player B will likely have shots added on for that particular course, because although it isn't long, they are likely to spray it about...

Would that be a fair simplification?

Yes. In simple terms the harder the course the higher the slope rating and therefore the more shots a player will receive.

In slightly more complicated terms the 5 handicappper will get less 'additional' shots because his multiplication factor is 5 and the 25 handicappers is 25.

Your description of a course fits ours (Slope 128 off whites)
the 5 index player will get 6 shots the 25 gets 28

 

[jim8flog]

Way too complicated with all the numbers people are throwing about. The existing system is so much easier to understand. I think the positive might be that I stop worrying about how my handicap will be affected by a round when I haven't got the foggiest clue anyway.

In the main you will not have to worry about in anyway.

If you play in a qualifying Comp all you have to do is to remember is check the computer or the CDH data base before playing again to see what what your Handicap Index is on the day of play next time you play. If it a rubbish round nothing is likely to have changed.

The Course Handicap is simply looked up on a chart, which will be displayed at the club

The only calculation you will have to do for yourself is to work out your Playing Handicap and if you only ever play singles comps it (probably) will be 95% of your your course handicap for all competitions.

 

[Mandofred]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

 

[jim8flog]

I know there are club members who take on positions of handicap sec etc- and I am grateful that they do all this work for the rest of us.
From what I can read here, it is they who need to know all these calculations etc.
As an ordinary member playing maybe a stableford comp once a week or so, am I correct in thinking that all I need to know about this system is what my handicap index is? So,
When I turn up to play the competition, I enter my details into the computer, give my handicap index and then I am informed what my handicap is for that competition, the computer having made all these calculations?

Well, I hope that's all I have to do?

Nearly right (not seen any system, so far, that converts H.I to course handicap before you play. Although this may change.

Having played in one comp next time you play you look up your Handicap Index on the computer and you use this figure to look up your course handicap on the charts that the club will display. However if the competition has a Playing Handicap limit (95% for singles) you will have to work this out for yourself but I bet someone will start offering charts to do this as well, similarly to ones currently available.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

Enter the other clubs opens next year and clean up ?

 

[jim8flog]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

One of the problems with this I have noticed is that course that were rated several years ago seem to have a variation compared to courses done recently.

My brain lately and the maths involved does make me wonder about this.

Eg Burnham and Berrow, where I have played a lot and consider a much harder course , has yellow slope rating the same as ours and the white is less than ours . However their Course Ratings are much higher than ours.
What the relative difference means between our members H.I.s and theirs is I need to work out.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

Come on, name them? Oakdale by any chance?

 

[rulefan]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

Remember, slope does not tell you the actual difficulty of a course.

Course Rating says how difficult it is for a scratch player
Bogey Rating says how difficult it is for a 20ish handicapper

Slope only says how difficult it is relatively for a bogey player compared with a scratch player on that course and set of tees.

 

[howbow88]

Bit of a continuing stink at our course about the slope ratings. There is a course nearby that has been given a higher slope rating than our course and from what everybody I've talked to who occasionally plays that course....ours is a noticeably harder course. I think the mgr is trying to get ours reassessed. This fight has been going quite a while I think.

Ours hasn't been assessed as of yet... I am intrigued as to what will happen. It is not a long course but it notoriously difficult, to the point where a lot of our members do well in competitions outside the club. Something that WHS should probably change...

 

[Ethan]

Those of you playing at Bearwood Lakes might be interested to know that from the white tees (which I presume you will use), the course rating is 72 and the slope is 142. If you know the same for your own course you can use the opportunity to compare and contrast.

 

[rulefan]

Come on, name them? Oakdale by any chance?

K'boro White
CR = 73.3 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 128

Oakdale White
CR = 71.6 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 137

The CR at K'boro is higher so the course is more difficult there for the scratch player than at Oakdale

But the difference between CR & BR (ie slope) is greater at Oakdale so the more strokes the higher capper needs to compete with a scratch player at that course.

Slope itself tells you nothing about actual difficulty

A 10.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 12
A 20.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 24
A 30.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 36

A 10.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 11
A 20.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 23
A 30.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 34

If my maths is right

 

[rulefan]

Ours hasn't been assessed as of yet... I am intrigued as to what will happen. It is not a long course but it notoriously difficult, to the point where a lot of our members do well in competitions outside the club. Something that WHS should probably change...

Assuming you are in England, the old SSS had no concept of difficulty for other than scratch players. Your non cat 1 players will be pleased

 

[rulefan]

Those of you playing at Bearwood Lakes might be interested to know that from the white tees (which I presume you will use), the course rating is 72 and the slope is 142.

Pretty tough for ^cappers

 

[Lord Tyrion]

K'boro White
CR = 73.3 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 128

Oakdale White
CR = 71.6 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 137

The CR at K'boro is higher so the course is more difficult there for the scratch player than at Oakdale

But the difference between CR & BR (ie slope) is greater at Oakdale so the more strokes the higher capper needs to compete with a scratch player at that course.

Slope itself tells you nothing about actual difficulty

A 10.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 12
A 20.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 24
A 30.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 36

A 10.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 11
A 20.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 23
A 30.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 34

If my maths is right

That all makes sense ?. Genuinely, this all reads as gibberish to most people but I'm not worrying about it at this stage.

I follow a few clubs in N.Yorks, banjos club and Oakdale are two of them. I know there is great competition between the two clubs, they are both cracking members clubs that are a pleasure to play, so my post was a bit of gentle prodding. If banjos club felt put out it was a reasonable bet it was going to be that one. It may not be of course and it really doesn't matter, except to ego ?.

 

[Mandofred]

Come on, name them? Oakdale by any chance?

K'boro White
CR = 73.3 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 128

Oakdale White
CR = 71.6 Bogey = 97.0 Slope = 137

The CR at K'boro is higher so the course is more difficult there for the scratch player than at Oakdale

But the difference between CR & BR (ie slope) is greater at Oakdale so the more strokes the higher capper needs to compete with a scratch player at that course.

Slope itself tells you nothing about actual difficulty

A 10.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 12
A 20.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 24
A 30.0 Index player at Oakdale has a Course Handicap of 36

A 10.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 11
A 20.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 23
A 30.0 Index player at K'boro has a Course Handicap of 34

If my maths is right

The one that keeps coming up is Harrogate.
Comments from low and higher handicap players. I've never played there. Or any of the other courses....I'm really boring.

 

[Foxholer]

Those of you playing at Bearwood Lakes might be interested to know that from the white tees (which I presume you will use), the course rating is 72 and the slope is 142. If you know the same for your own course you can use the opportunity to compare and contrast.

Mine (Whites) is 72.6/98.8 and 141, so pretty similar (challenging!) ratings. I can vouch for the splendour of Bearwood, though it has been a while since having the privilege of playing there, so there'll undoubtedly have been a number of changes made by the eternally dabbling owner!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The one that keeps coming up is Harrogate.
Comments from low and higher handicap players. I've never played there. Or any of the other courses....I'm really boring.

Oh blimey, your club is right ?. I've played all of the courses in your area and there is no way Harrogate is tougher than your place, not even close. It's a nice course, shorter and a little tighter but there is no question I will score better there than yours, as will pretty much everyone else.

You need to be less boring ?, some lovely courses within 15 minutes of you that are well worth a visit. Opens are your friend.

 

[Foxholer]

Remember, slope does not tell you the actual difficulty of a course.

Course Rating says how difficult it is for a scratch player
Bogey Rating says how difficult it is for a 20ish handicapper

Slope only says how difficult it is relatively for a bogey player compared with a scratch player on that course and set of tees.

To 'quantify' the difference between the 2 ratings, imagine a (completely hypothetical/ridiculous, but demonstrative) course comprised of holes with right angle doglegs at 230-250 yards from the tee - tree-lined, so no way of cutting the corners.
Course Rating - defined for Scratch player could well be less than Par - as expectation is they will have the distance to get to the corner and maybe make Birdie if only a relatively short distance to Green. On the other hand a 'Bogey Player' would always be taking 3 shots - at least - to get to the green (often more) so Slope (the relatively difficulty) would be high!

 

[Mandofred]

Oh blimey, your club is right ?. I've played all of the courses in your area and there is no way Harrogate is tougher than your place, not even close. It's a nice course, shorter and a little tighter but there is no question I will score better there than yours, as will pretty much everyone else.

You need to be less boring ?, some lovely courses within 15 minutes of you that are well worth a visit. Opens are your friend.

Wouldn't you know that this was going to be there year I was planning on playing with the Seniors team and maybe the 2nd team...if for no other reason than I would see some other courses.......nothing happening. Although the first team had a comp this afternoon with Rudding Park. The only other local course I have played is Spofforth, which is pay+play. When I was working a couple other teachers and I would go out a few times in the spring when we had time after school. Other than that.....away day at Durham and another away day at Beamish?.... hilly course which a lot of guys didn't like because of that. Also once at Skipton which I would like to go back to, they have since put in a couple of new holes.

 

[howbow88]

Assuming you are in England, the old SSS had no concept of difficulty for other than scratch players. Your non cat 1 players will be pleased

Well, that's what I am a bit interested/concerned about... I'm not cat 1, but we have very few of them. I hope WHS doesn't make things harder on them.