World Handicap System (WHS)

[jim8flog]

My course has been done off the reds, but none of the others yet...

A lot of the reds were done several years ago and there will a few courses like yours

 

[Swango1980]

I've been searching a few of the local course that we've played on. Two of them were 110 and 112 off yellows. None of them were below 113 off the whites though. My course Haste Hill off whites was the second highest slope rating of the bunch at 131. So for the majority of the other local courses I'm going to be playing off a couple of shots less than I would at my home course it seems like?

I'm trying to sort of backwards engineer this - given that my 15.9 handicap is based on a 131 slope course now, could I reasonably expect my new handicap index to be as low as 14 I guess? Unless my 'average of 8 best rounds' is somehow much higher than 15.9.

I wouldn't pay too much focus on your current handicap to be honest. If you knew your last 20 scores against SSS/CSS you could work it your index though (and more specifically, your best 8 within those). But, certainly, if you go to play other courses with lower slopes, you will play off a lower handicap on those courses (depending on how much lower and where decimal lies). Or, simply, you could work out %. If your slope is 131, and you play at easy course with 112, then at easy course your course handicap would be 112/131 of your course handicap ar your place (about 85%). If you went to course with slope of 150, your handicap there would be 150/131 compared to your course (about 115%)

 

[jim8flog]

I've been searching a few of the local course that we've played on. Two of them were 110 and 112 off yellows. None of them were below 113 off the whites though. My course Haste Hill off whites was the second highest slope rating of the bunch at 131. So for the majority of the other local courses I'm going to be playing off a couple of shots less than I would at my home course it seems like?

I'm trying to sort of backwards engineer this - given that my 15.9 handicap is based on a 131 slope course now, could I reasonably expect my new handicap index to be as low as 14 I guess? Unless my 'average of 8 best rounds' is somehow much higher than 15.9.

It is easier to work it out correctly and go from there.

Check you handicap history assuming you have at least 20 since January 2018 just look at the last 20 only and pick the best 8, total and then divide by 8 to get your approximate Handicap index. Use the whole of the number in the equation given by Swango and round afterwards.

If you have less than 20 since Januray 18 then you do not use 8.

our 18 hole course yellow and whites are 124/128 I will go up about a stroke.
our 9 hole course when played as 18 is 112 and I will lose about half a stroke
compared to current handicap. Eg on the 18 hole course current 9.6 will become 10.8/10.5
Decimal points could be making a difference for me as I am on the cusp either way with rounding.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Our slope rating is higher on the yellow tees than from the white. Only by 1, but still. Seem a bit strange, but then again, I don’t know how it works, and I don’t really care either.

 

[nickjdavis]

So does 131 mean the course is deemed harder than average?

No.

What it means is that it is harder for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer, than other courses with a lower Slope Rating.

The absolute difficulty of a golf course is quantified by the Course Rating for Scratch Golfers and Bogey Rating for Bogey golfers. It is perfectly possible to have a course with a lower Course Rating but a higher slope rating than another course...because slope is all about the relative difficulty for a bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer. So a short narrow course may well have a lower Course Rating (because the predominant factor in CR is measured length) but a higher slope rating because Bogey golfers tend to be a bit more wayward and might be punished more at the narrower course. Also, the shorter hitting bogey golfer may well find that some hazards come into play that just don't figure during the scratch golfers game.

Take my home course which is only 5877 yards off the whites and another Suffolk club which has a length of 6685yds...so over 800 yards difference.....our course rating is 68.7 and our bogey rating is 91.8...so a difference of 23.1 shots. The other course has a course rating of 72.3 and a bogey rating of 95.0 ...a difference of 22.7 shots.....so in actual fact, for a bogey golfer our course is 0.4 shots harder than the other course RELATIVE to what a scratch golfer would score.

Our slope is 124 and the other course is 123. No one who has ever played either course would suggest that ours is harder than the other in absolute difficulty terms...but the way the new WHS works, it is harder for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer than the other course.

Its that term...."relative".

 

[Deleted member 3432]

No.

What it means is that it is harder for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer, than other courses with a lower Slope Rating.

The absolute difficulty of a golf course is quantified by the Course Rating for Scratch Golfers and Bogey Rating for Bogey golfers. It is perfectly possible to have a course with a lower Course Rating but a higher slope rating than another course...because slope is all about the relative difficulty for a bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer. So a short narrow course may well have a lower Course Rating (because the predominant factor in CR is measured length) but a higher slope rating because Bogey golfers tend to be a bit more wayward and might be punished more at the narrower course. Also, the shorter hitting bogey golfer may well find that some hazards come into play that just don't figure during the scratch golfers game.

Take my home course which is only 5877 yards off the whites and another Suffolk club which has a length of 6685yds...so over 800 yards difference.....our course rating is 68.7 and our bogey rating is 91.8...so a difference of 23.1 shots. The other course has a course rating of 72.3 and a bogey rating of 95.0 ...a difference of 22.7 shots.....so in actual fact, for a bogey golfer our course is 0.4 shots harder than the other course RELATIVE to what a scratch golfer would score.

Our slope is 124 and the other course is 123. No one who has ever played either course would suggest that ours is harder than the other in absolute difficulty terms...but the way the new WHS works, it is harder for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer than the other course.

Its that term...."relative".

How does it all work for us that are neither scratch or bogey golfers but somewhere in the middle?

 

[Swango1980]

How does it all work for us that are neither scratch or bogey golfers but somewhere in the middle?

It just simply works out linearly for all. For someone in between, they will get more added to their handicap compared to scratch, but not as much as bogey. So, if a bogey golfer got 2 shots more, a 9-11 handicapper may only get 1 more shot. And, it continues on to golfers worse than bogey, who will get more again.

Basically, a zero handicapper will always have a zero course handicap, regardless of course. At high slope courses, the higher the handicap index, the bigger the course handicap increase relative to lower handicappers.

 

[rosie]

Will our transition handicap index be worked out using course rating or sss, before the css adjustment?

 

[jim8flog]

Will our transition handicap index be worked out using course rating or sss, before the css adjustment?

Good question but it would be the CSS that is used not SSS as it it differentials that it based on and differential is compared to CSS.

 

[rulefan]

I've been searching a few of the local course that we've played on. Two of them were 110 and 112 off yellows. None of them were below 113 off the whites though. My course Haste Hill off whites was the second highest slope rating of the bunch at 131. So for the majority of the other local courses I'm going to be playing off a couple of shots less than I would at my home course it seems like?

I'm trying to sort of backwards engineer this - given that my 15.9 handicap is based on a 131 slope course now, could I reasonably expect my new handicap index to be as low as 14 I guess? Unless my 'average of 8 best rounds' is somehow much higher than 15.9.

Slope and handicap only makes sense if you have the Course Rating

 

[rulefan]

My course has been done off the reds, but none of the others yet...

All courses in GB&I, except men's courses in England have been rated to the USGA specification for at least 10 years. The English Golf Union as was decided that they would only rate courses for scratch players and ignore bogey and slope rating. We have spent the last couple of years trying to catch up.

 

[IanMcC]

Will our transition handicap index be worked out using course rating or sss, before the css adjustment?

This is a great question, and i have been wondering about this myself. I have given all my friends ratings based on CSS, as per their best 8 out of last 20 gross differentials, but obviously there will be a difference if WHS uses course rating, which I think they should. The delay in answering probably means that even the ones close to the decision making dont really know. All logic points to Course rating, but I dont know if the software is up to it.

 

[rulefan]

This is a great question, and i have been wondering about this myself. I have given all my friends ratings based on CSS, as per their best 8 out of last 20 gross differentials, but obviously there will be a difference if WHS uses course rating, which I think they should. The delay in answering probably means that even the ones close to the decision making dont really know. All logic points to Course rating, but I dont know if the software is up to it.

CSS will be used. CSS is more appropriate as it roughly equates with PCC used in calculating the Score Differential
The software is certainly up to it as both SSS/CR and CSS are available in the CDH records.

 

[howbow88]

All courses in GB&I, except men's courses in England have been rated to the USGA specification for at least 10 years. The English Golf Union as was decided that they would only rate courses for scratch players and ignore bogey and slope rating. We have spent the last couple of years trying to catch up.

Do you have any idea what sort of percentage of UK courses (from the men's tees) have been rated so far? I'm hoping mine isn't left out

 

[cliveb]

CSS will be used. CSS is more appropriate as it roughly equates with PCC used in calculating the Score Differential
The software is certainly up to it as both SSS/CR and CSS are available in the CDH records.

Why won't the initial HCP indexes be calculated using de-sloped net differentials? All the courses will need to have CR and slope ratings by the time WHS begins, so the necessary data is available. Is it only because there will not be any PCC available for historic rounds? Can't a PCC be estimated from CSS?

 

[nickjdavis]

Why won't the initial HCP indexes be calculated using de-sloped net differentials? All the courses will need to have CR and slope ratings by the time WHS begins, so the necessary data is available. Is it only because there will not be any PCC available for historic rounds? Can't a PCC be estimated from CSS?

What makes you think that the indexes wont be calculated using desloped net differentials?

All Rulefans post said was that CSS would be used to determine the nett differential, not Course Rating.

 

[jim8flog]

Slope and handicap only makes sense if you have the Course Rating

The course rating and the SSS are so close where I play that it would not create a big difference

-0.2 off whites
and
+0.4 (or -0.1 on the shorter course)

 

[Ethan]

Just as an FYI, I have set up a small spreadsheet for my handicap, and listed the last 20 scores. For each line, I have the date, course rating (based on tee), gross score and a number showing the order in which the scores will disappear, as they become the 21st score and thus fall out of the calc. Then I sort by score, calculate the mean gross (all off same tees), deduct the course rating, x 113/142 (slope) and that gives me an approx handicap.

So I know that for my scores, my 8th best score is about to expire next time I submit a card, so if I do better than that score, the HI will drop, but if I don't the score will be replaced by the current 9th best score, which is only 1 higher than the 8th, so will have a very minor effect. I also know that my 3rd best score will expire in 4 rounds time, so I need to get a couple of decent scores on the board to make up for it.

 

[cliveb]

What makes you think that the indexes wont be calculated using desloped net differentials?

All Rulefans post said was that CSS would be used to determine the nett differential, not Course Rating.

I interpreted what rulefan said as implying that the differentials used would just be gross score against CSS.
He didn't mention de-sloping, and I probably got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[nickjdavis]

I interpreted what rulefan said as implying that the differentials used would just be gross score against CSS.
He didn't mention de-sloping, and I probably got the wrong end of the stick.

Thats ok...you had me worried in case I'd missed something where it was mentioned that desloping wouldnt happen!!!