Women's safety

[PhilTheFragger]

Everything I am saying is well within the bounds of the topic of this post. I am pushing back against antiquated ideas that are at the core to this entire debate over what is and isn’t acceptable in how men treat women and the perceived safety that women feel. I’m only replying those people who are challenging my points made in reference to a member of this forum openly admitting he inappropriately touched a woman. I felt it was entirely reasonable to respond to those. I won’t reply to their justifications again but it’s important people realise what is and isn’t ok and look at it from modern standpoints, not those from the historic old boy’s club.

And in the process repeating yourself
your point has been made quite eloquently.

 

[Billysboots]

Hovis did it intentionally. You did it accidentally. Slight difference.

To nip this in the bud you perhaps need to look at the definition of sexual touching and understand it. For it to be a sexual assault the touching itself must be sexual in nature. Having read what Hovis has described it’s a huge leap of faith to suggest he sexually assaulted anyone.

 

[theoneandonly]

@Kellfire
Enough now please
You have made your point

Kellfire rightly highlights the kind of issues and micro aggressions that women have to face on a daily basis but are often fearful of speaking up about, along comes a man to shut it down.

Did you even take a second to think about what you were doing?

Properly embarrassing.

 

[Smiffy]

Having read what Hovis has described it’s a huge leap of faith to suggest he sexually assaulted anyone.

Not to somebody on a mission...
????

 

[Kellfire]

To nip this in the bud you perhaps need to look at the definition of sexual touching and understand it. For it to be a sexual assault the touching itself must be sexual in nature. Having read what Hovis has described it’s a huge leap of faith to suggest he sexually assaulted anyone.

I refer you to my eloquently put rebuttals above.

 

[Captainron]

I’m genuinely concerned for some peoples minds in this thread.

The extrapolation of violence from innocuous actions is mind blowing.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Yep. It's a shame that the vigil seemed to have been hijacked by agitators and it's a shame that the police didn't anticipate it and plan accordingly. Any peaceful protest that results in the mess that last night appears to have turned into is going to cause embarrassment for the cops and their bosses.

What, by refusing to give it a permit perhaps?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olidarity-and-to-pay-tribute-to-sarah-everard

"Tensions were high before the vigil, which had officially been cancelled after the Metropolitan police refused to give the organisers a permit."

The vigil as such didn't exist as it had been cancelled.

 

[Billysboots]

I refer you to my eloquently put rebuttals above.

Are you arguing that he sexually assaulted someone? Yes or no?

Because the law will tell you he didn’t.

 

[Kellfire]

Are you arguing that he sexually assaulted someone? Yes or no?

Because the law will tell you he didn’t.

Stop trying to bait me into responding to things I have been asked not to reply to by a moderator.

 

[hovis]

Kellfire rightly highlights the kind of issues and micro aggressions that women have to face on a daily basis but are often fearful of speaking up about, along comes a man to shut it down.

Did you even take a second to think about what you were doing?

Properly embarrassing.

I'm out of here!!!!

 

[chrisd]

Intent didn’t matter in this case. Without consent he had no right to do that. That’s as black and white as it can possibly me.

Put it his way, if I spilled my beer on your lap and started dabbing away to your crotch, would you lie back and let me finish?

Intent always matters.

Murder with intent is murder, without intent is manslaughter- same outcome different penalty

 

[Billysboots]

Stop trying to bait me into responding to things I have been asked not to reply to by a moderator.

Not trying to bait you, and I’m sorry if it came across as such. What I’m trying to do is draw a line under it by explaining how the law regards the behaviour described. It’s not a sexual assault.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Well if this thread is a full reflection of the population, as a middle aged man I will ignore everything going on around me when I'm outside my own 4 walls for fear of being accused of something I am not.
If trying to help someone or coming to someones aid when they cry for help is going to land me with a label I dont want then sorry, I am ignoring everone and everything out there.
Perhaps all this overly sensitive reaction and labelling is part of the problem, that real decent people are afraid to actually come to someones help for the fear of being accused of something.

 

[clubchamp98]

What, by refusing to give it a permit perhaps?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olidarity-and-to-pay-tribute-to-sarah-everard

"Tensions were high before the vigil, which had officially been cancelled after the Metropolitan police refused to give the organisers a permit."

The vigil as such didn't exist as it had been cancelled.

Thing is men have been asked to listen to the problem.
But those people who attended the illegal gathering didn’t listen to the Police or a High Court Judge.
It put the Police in an impossible situation and I am not surprised by the outcome.
It’s turning what should be a serious problem into a who did what.
Anyone there was breaking the law and putting lives at risk.

 

[Kellfire]

Intent always matters.

Murder with intent is murder, without intent is manslaughter- same outcome different penalty

As above. Stop trying to bait.

 

[RichA]

What, by refusing to give it a permit perhaps?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olidarity-and-to-pay-tribute-to-sarah-everard

"Tensions were high before the vigil, which had officially been cancelled after the Metropolitan police refused to give the organisers a permit."

The vigil as such didn't exist as it had been cancelled.

No. I mean by briefing their officers to try not drag any women to the ground and handcuff them in front of the world's media while they're protesting about violence against women.
The negative effects of the police action will probably outweigh the positive effects of clamping down on the rulebreaking.
I wasn't there, but it looks like a night where discretion and proportionally should have been on everyone's minds.

 

[chrisd]

As above. Stop trying to bait.

Just answering things posted that are blatantly wrong !

 

[harpo_72]

As a teenager I have been inappropriately touched by women... I keep my hands to myself as was the guidance of my parents..
Life happens not too precious about that, but the stuff I don’t like is verbal bullying and been on the end of that from all genders, except with males one has a solution, but with women you apparently have to accept it ... so both genders do stuff that is inappropriate and one is not better than the other, they just work differently/ have different aggression strategies.. There are just horrible people

 

[Rlburnside]

It’s a shame because it did hijack people just wanting to pay respects.

What about respect for the police and wider community potentially putting them at risk?

There are other ways to show respect, from what I have seen and heard from the media very little blame is being apportioned to these breaking COVID rules.

If these people attending were more responsible and thought of the wider picture non of this would have happened.

 

[Beezerk]

Re the vigil thing, I don't understand why they didn't just wait a couple of weeks until the lockdown is eased.