Women's safety

[Kellfire]

The point I'm trying to make is many people can recall a situation when they could think back and crowbar a situation into something that qualified as sexual assault to fit an agenda. Personally I'd be more willing to accept reported figures of sexual assault rather than stop and ask.
By the definition of sexual assault I myself have been a victim countless times.

So you admit that touching her like that was a form of sexual assault albeit there was no intention of harm on your part at that time?

 

[hovis]

They landed squarely on the breasts of the woman facing me.

I'd love to have seen your face

 

[chrisd]

Hovis did it intentionally. You did it accidentally. Slight difference.

But with no ill intent as I read it, so no real difference to accidental

 

[hovis]

So you admit that touching her like that was a form of sexual assault albeit there was no intention of harm on your part at that time?

Yes I do admit it. I can't deny I touched her boob. Let me ask you a question. What do you think a judge will say about the situation? I'll save you the time as I wouldn't have even made it to the back of a police car because common sense would have prevailed as well as 5 witnesses

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I'd love to have seen your face

Don't know who was more embarrassed! Fortunately we both saw the funny side and ended up laughing about it. Total accident, impulse reaction, no intent. I doubt Kellfire will understand that.

 

[Kellfire]

But with no ill intent as I read it, so no real difference to accidental

Intent didn’t matter in this case. Without consent he had no right to do that. That’s as black and white as it can possibly me.

Put it his way, if I spilled my beer on your lap and started dabbing away to your crotch, would you lie back and let me finish?

 

[Kellfire]

Yes I do admit it. I can't deny I touched her boob. Let me ask you a question. What do you think a judge will say about the situation? I'll save you the time as I wouldn't have even made it to the back of a police car because common sense would have prevailed as well as 5 witnesses

I think a judge would tell you that you had no right to touch a woman’s breasts like that.

 

[hovis]

Intent didn’t matter in this case. Without consent he had no right to do that. That’s as black and white as it can possibly me.

Put it his way, if I spilled my beer on your lap and started dabbing away to your crotch, would you lie back and let me finish?

That's completely different and as usual you are twisting a story to suit your opinion. I didn't dab away at her breasts and ask her to sit back. If you opened a bottle of champagne and it sprayed on my cock then I wouldn't have anything to say if you acted in impulse and tried to sweep it away before it set in. I would most likely have made a comment such as "while your down there"

 

[hovis]

I think a judge would tell you that you had no right to touch a woman’s breasts like that.

It wouldn't have got to a judge because they haven't got a broom up their ass

 

[RichA]

You checked?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The vigil was always going to happen - even when it was called off by the organisers. They knew that, the police knew that and I can't help but think the latter handled it very badly indeed.

It seems the police were in a no win situation but I believe there were options to hold the vigil, with permission, in a more organised fashion with an attempt at social distancing etc but that was rejected. To then do anything but just monitor the situation and hold back from confrontation would surely have been the wisest course of action. If provoked then deal with that individual (s) if really necessary but with every effort to avoid a physical confrontation. Those using it as a platform for other agendas (what the hell is ACAB about, never heard of it before - beggars belief) should have been marched away and I would hope those there for genuine reasons as a vigil would have been delighted to see the back of the scum.

I think the final part is what you would hope that is exactly what would happen- trouble makers removed , peaceful vigil left to be finished - unfortunatly it all got mixed in and emotions on both sides took over -when you have baying crowds shouting “Police are Scum” and “F the police” in their face then it’s going to be hostile

It’s a shame because it did hijack people just wanting to pay respects.

I think it was all a case of everything that could go wrong did as well as the timing. If they had waited a week then it might not have been the same reaction

When you add in people suggesting curfews and add in cabin fever it was boiling point

I hope now though the overriding message is not forgotten and that’s to make our streets as safe as possible

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I know it’s not ok to put my hands anywhere on a woman without her consent, let alone an area of her body that is considered sexual, even if it is to help mop up a drink I’ve spilled on her. If you think it is ok then you’re part of the problem these woman are trying to highlight.

Why does every single thread have to end up like this when you jump in with a big finger pointed at people.

Many actions from both male and female can be classed as sexual assault if done as a deliberate forced sexual action

You don’t have to disect everything down to the finite level just so you can find guilt

 

[Kellfire]

Why does every single thread have to end up like this when you jump in with a big finger pointed at people.

Many actions from both male and female can be classed as sexual assault if done as a deliberate forced sexual action

You don’t have to disect everything down to the finite level just so you can find guilt

This is a clear cut example of the sort of behaviour that many women are trying to highlight as wrong and have felt unable to for a long time because of where the power lies in our society. It’s disgusting to even suggest what hovis did was in anyway acceptable.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

@Kellfire
Enough now please
You have made your point

 

[hovis]

This is a clear cut example of the sort of behaviour that many women are trying to highlight as wrong and have felt unable to for a long time because of where the power lies in our society. It’s disgusting to even suggest what hovis did was in anyway acceptable.

Well, the women that I did it to thought it was acceptable as I was trying to save her expensive top. Don't think she was as sensitive as you and it was her boobs!!!!!

 

[RichA]

It’s a shame because it did hijack people just wanting to pay respects...

Yep. It's a shame that the vigil seemed to have been hijacked by agitators and it's a shame that the police didn't anticipate it and plan accordingly. Any peaceful protest that results in the mess that last night appears to have turned into is going to cause embarrassment for the cops and their bosses.

 

[Smiffy]

If you think it is ok then you’re part of the problem these woman are trying to highlight.

Dear oh dear oh dear.
Talk about taking things out of context.
Unless, of course Jack the Ripper, Dennis Nilson, Ted Bundy and Peter Sutcliffe all started out by brushing spilt champagne from a woman's blouse.
You couldn't make it up.

 

[Kellfire]

@Kellfire
Enough now please
You have made your point

Everything I am saying is well within the bounds of the topic of this post. I am pushing back against antiquated ideas that are at the core to this entire debate over what is and isn’t acceptable in how men treat women and the perceived safety that women feel. I’m only replying those people who are challenging my points made in reference to a member of this forum openly admitting he inappropriately touched a woman. I felt it was entirely reasonable to respond to those. I won’t reply to their justifications again but it’s important people realise what is and isn’t ok and look at it from modern standpoints, not those from the historic old boy’s club.

 

[Smiffy]

Everything I am saying is well within the bounds of the topic of this post. I am pushing back against antiquated ideas that are at the core to this entire debate over what is and isn’t acceptable in how men treat women and the perceived safety that women feel. I’m only replying those people who are challenging my points made in reference to a member of this forum openly admitting he inappropriately touched a woman. I felt it was entirely reasonable to respond to those. I won’t reply to their justifications again but it’s important people realise what is and isn’t ok and look at it from modern standpoints, not those from the historic old boy’s club.

No you're not

 

[RichA]

I'm not going to quote the earlier post, but the argument referring to the nature and relative rarity of sharks has been used as an argument against change for decades - gun control, child abuse...
Life isn't binary. There is a whole lot of nuance in between murdered and not murdered.