Winter Golf and Handicap

[Jason.H]

Usually when we get to this time of year, I stop entering comps or putting any cards in because it's winter golf and inevitably would just mean my handicap goes up, which I don't particularly want. I'm wondering now whether to do it differently this year though. This has been the first year where I've not been able to get my handicap down at all. So I'm asking myself, what would I rather? My handicap stays at 14.6 and then next Spring I resume trying to get it lower, possibly struggling again as I have this year. Or do I allow it to go up over winter and then get it back down in spring - same end result but a better feeling as at least I'll have had a cut then? And I suppose most of the spring comps are likely to be won by people who did go up over winter.

Which kind are you? No cards in winter so you don't go up, or just let it go up to get it back down again in spring?

We are non qualifying through winter so no handicap change. I still play and enjoy all the competitions though. I tend to score better in the winter so I win more then and don’t get cut

 

[sjw]

We had a comp on Saturday and Sunday this week (I didn't play) but due to the amount of rain we've had, the decision was made to a) make it non-qualifying and b) play the par 3s off the winter mats. The email said something along the lines of "you are, of course, welcome to put a general play card in." Is that right? How do general play cards work when some of the holes are off mats? Going further, while we haven't had temporary greens, can you still do a GP card when they are in play? Surely not?

 

[IanM]

If the winter teeing mats are "measured" as part of a winter course, it qualifies.

 

[wjemather]

We had a comp on Saturday and Sunday this week (I didn't play) but due to the amount of rain we've had, the decision was made to a) make it non-qualifying and b) play the par 3s off the winter mats. The email said something along the lines of "you are, of course, welcome to put a general play card in." Is that right? How do general play cards work when some of the holes are off mats? Going further, while we haven't had temporary greens, can you still do a GP card when they are in play? Surely not?

No, that is not right. The course is either suitable for acceptable scores for handicapping or it isn't - there is no differentiation to be made between competition and general play. If the course is suitable, all competition rounds are considered pre-registered for handicapping and scores must be submitted.
If the mats are within reasonable range of the normal tees, it's perfectly fine as long as the overall length isn't reduced or increased by more than 100 yards.
Up to 2 temporary greens may be in play, as long as the holes are regulation, with the same 100 yard condition as above.

 

[jim8flog]

Well I am surprised to see that there seems to be as many vanity cappers here as there are reported bandits.

I am reminded of one of my playing mates who I have known for nearly 40 years.
He never scores more than 30 points in both the swindles he plays in.
I know his vanity will not let me put him forward for handicap increase based upon his swindle scores (he will never put in GP scores whereas virtually everybody else in one swindle does).

 

[2blue]

I am reminded of one of my playing mates who I have known for nearly 40 years.
He never scores more than 30 points in both the swindles he plays in.
I know his vanity will not let me put him forward for handicap increase based upon his swindle scores (he will never put in GP scores whereas virtually everybody else in one swindle does).

Bigger fool he..... who's he think he's kidding.... well, not you for a start & who's going to be happy playing team golf with him?

 

[Golfnut1957]

The course was open for the first time in 13 days today, still very wet and soft and only 10 holes open but still enjoyable, even though the fairways haven't been cut for weeks (too soft) and you can't now differentiate between the fairway and rough, they are both that long. Add in the millions of leaves from the thousands of trees which also cannot be dealt with because of the conditions that are contributing to golf being a tad difficult.

Notwithstanding any of that it was open, and it was a beautiful sunny day without a breath of wind. It must have been vanity which stopped me putting a card in.

 

[2blue]

The course was open for the first time in 13 days today, still very wet and soft and only 10 holes open but still enjoyable, even though the fairways haven't been cut for weeks (too soft) and you can't now differentiate between the fairway and rough, they are both that long. Add in the millions of leaves from the thousands of trees which also cannot be dealt with because of the conditions that are contributing to golf being a tad difficult.

Notwithstanding any of that it was open, and it was a beautiful sunny day without a breath of wind. It must have been vanity which stopped me putting a card in.

What a Wally...looks like an opportunity missed

 

[badgergm]

tees on our course are well forward and not a rated course. Most comps 12 holes 4BBB. mats or move to the side. Place everywhere. many carry, as I do (when I play which isn’t often) with a half set.
Everyone seems to enjoy it, get outside, etc.
Have thought about getting the course rated but little point. We start proper golf season early and finish late. Far better way of doing it for our course.

 

[Slab]

I’m sure there’s a flaw in this but…

If short hitting winter conditions means scoring isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go up ‘unfairly’) does it mean that baked summer fairways with oodles of extra run also isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go down ‘unfairly’)

So if there's no qualifying in winter for above reason surely it follows you also need no qualifying in height of summer too?

 

[2blue]

I’m sure there’s a flaw in this but…

If short hitting winter conditions means scoring isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go up ‘unfairly’) does it mean that baked summer fairways with oodles of extra run also isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go down ‘unfairly’)

So if there's no qualifying in winter for above reason surely it follows you also need no qualifying in height of summer too?

Oh no..... there's a "golfing season" yer know & each of us make up our own

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Given golf was (allegedly) invented in Scotland. Surely ‘proper’ golf is playing in cold, windy and wet conditions.

Those saying winter golf isn’t ‘proper’ golf, but summer golf is have things the wrong way round

 

[IanM]

Given golf was (allegedly) invented in Scotland. Surely ‘proper’ golf is playing in cold, windy and wet conditions.

Yep. July!

 

[Orikoru]

I’m sure there’s a flaw in this but…

If short hitting winter conditions means scoring isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go up ‘unfairly’) does it mean that baked summer fairways with oodles of extra run also isn’t reflective of ability (& handicap may go down ‘unfairly’)

So if there's no qualifying in winter for above reason surely it follows you also need no qualifying in height of summer too?

Maybe - but firstly, we never had that this year, and secondly, nobody calls you a bandit if it's that way round. In the 'new' handicap system it goes back up pretty quickly anyway.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Yep. July!

July is no good for us, it was closed for most of the last one..............waterlogged.

 

[Swango1980]

Rather than rely on individual player perception, does anyone know a study where many winter and summer scores have been compared? Compared both in general, and maybe also compared for a variety of different courses to see if there is a bigger difference at some and not others?

Presumably the UK handicap authorities have done such a study, to give them comfort that scores can be acceptable all year round.

 

[Slab]

Maybe - but firstly, we never had that this year, and secondly, nobody calls you a bandit if it's that way round. In the 'new' handicap system it goes back up pretty quickly anyway.

I get it & I was just doing some devils wotsit anyway
(although I probably shouldn't have commented on the topic because the only real difference between summer and winter golf is how much sunscreen I go through )

 

[Golfnut1957]

Rather than rely on individual player perception, does anyone know a study where many winter and summer scores have been compared? Compared both in general, and maybe also compared for a variety of different courses to see if there is a bigger difference at some and not others?

Presumably the UK handicap authorities have done such a study, to give them comfort that scores can be acceptable all year round.

Our issue isn't the scores it is the difference in our two courses. Because the far end of the course is low-lying it suffers during extreme rain conditions. To counter this we have two par 3 winter holes which replace two par fours, and we have a further two permanent winter greens replacing two summer ones.
This winter or wet weather course has a par of 69, two less than the par 71 of the full "summer" course, but it isn't much shorter than the full course, however the slope and course rating are significantly lower. The net result can see an individual shooting the best scores he has all year but the differential is massively increased and so handicaps are guaranteed to go up, hence the only people putting cards in are those looking for a good year next year.

As I said earlier in the thread off an index of 8.3 I need to shoot a 6 over 75 to maintain that 8.3. With the conditions that I described in post #107 (which are true by the way) breaking 80 would be a miracle.

 

[Swango1980]

Our issue isn't the scores it is the difference in our two courses. Because the far end of the course is low-lying it suffers during extreme rain conditions. To counter this we have two par 3 winter holes which replace two par fours, and we have a further two permanent winter greens replacing two summer ones.
This winter or wet weather course has a par of 69, two less than the par 71 of the full "summer" course, but it isn't much shorter than the full course, however the slope and course rating are significantly lower. The net result can see an individual shooting the best scores he has all year but the differential is massively increased and so handicaps are guaranteed to go up, hence the only people putting cards in are those looking for a good year next year.

As I said earlier in the thread off an index of 8.3 I need to shoot a 6 over 75 to maintain that 8.3. With the conditions that I described in post #107 (which are true by the way) breaking 80 would be a miracle.

Well, the only explanation for that is, if true, is that the Ratings are simply incorrect. That is, if there is truly very little difference between the expected scoring of both courses, then why are the Ratings so significantly different? Obviously that isn't something that anyone here can answer without knowing your course and being aware of how Ratings are set. However, given the process is meant to be pretty much independent of subjectivity and quite a logical and factual process to enable consistency, then if the Ratings for one course are actually wrong, then this could just as equally apply to the ratings between 2 different courses generally, simply over the summer season. That would be more concerning, and I expect that there is probably a justifiable reason why the Ratings are different, unless the Ratings Team have made some sort of silly error?

 

[Orikoru]

Well, the only explanation for that is, if true, is that the Ratings are simply incorrect. That is, if there is truly very little difference between the expected scoring of both courses, then why are the Ratings so significantly different? Obviously that isn't something that anyone here can answer without knowing your course and being aware of how Ratings are set. However, given the process is meant to be pretty much independent of subjectivity and quite a logical and factual process to enable consistency, then if the Ratings for one course are actually wrong, then this could just as equally apply to the ratings between 2 different courses generally, simply over the summer season. That would be more concerning, and I expect that there is probably a justifiable reason why the Ratings are different, unless the Ratings Team have made some sort of silly error?

The people who do the course ratings only care about how long it is and they pretty much ignore everything else.