Winter Golf and Handicap

[Backsticks]

Winter golf brings an element that PCC, perfect or imperfect cannot allow for, and this is the increase in random variation, particularly due to plugging lost balls, and balls lost in leaves. You are even less in control than usual in this game, and luck can be a dramatic influence on your score. Links players probably dont have this. But many of us do. Winter wont necessarily raise or distort your HI. But it might. So not putting in cards in those circumstances is perfectly reasonable. I usually play a couple of qualify competitions in such questionable conditions at the beginning of the season and at the end. But Nov-mid March we are non qualifying so its only a few rounds and little influence. But if we were qualifying through those months, no way I would put 5 or 6 months of not-really-fair-golfing-conditions scores.

 

[Golfnut1957]

The only comps we have through the winter are knockouts, no comps, no cards.

We also move to a winter course, Par 69, CR 65.7 with a slope of 114. On our normal summer course I look to have a maximum differential of 9.6, this is my benchmark which means my score needs to be an 11 over 82 on a Par 71 course.

The equivalent on the winter course is a 6 over 75 which gives a differential of 9.5.

The consensus around the club is that the only people putting cards in during the winter on this course are those people who are padding their handicap and looking forward to the start of proper golf and competitions in April.

 

[Oddsocks]

Usually when we get to this time of year, I stop entering comps or putting any cards in because it's winter golf and inevitably would just mean my handicap goes up, which I don't particularly want. I'm wondering now whether to do it differently this year though. This has been the first year where I've not been able to get my handicap down at all. So I'm asking myself, what would I rather? My handicap stays at 14.6 and then next Spring I resume trying to get it lower, possibly struggling again as I have this year. Or do I allow it to go up over winter and then get it back down in spring - same end result but a better feeling as at least I'll have had a cut then? And I suppose most of the spring comps are likely to be won by people who did go up over winter.

Which kind are you? No cards in winter so you don't go up, or just let it go up to get it back down again in spring?

You’re lucky to have a choice. Our roll up has grown that much that it’s now run through HDID as there’s often 40-60 entrants as as such all cards are submitted as general play. Every roll up in the winter is therefore registered as a general play card.

I’m not a fan… not one bit!

Our course can be brutal in the winds as it’s on the Surrey hills and fully exposed, yet during the winter it plays to 69 under the new rating opposed to 72/73.

 

[IanM]

Pure vanity makes our club have qualifiers all winter.

 

[Captain_Black.]

Some courses can play qualifiers through winter no problem, some can't.
My course does, but in reality they shouldn't.
The course just isn't good enough, if your playing very well & have a good amount of luck, you may get close to your h/c.
Personally I don't play qualifiers Nov - March, as it's far too boggy & the rough is brutal.
I really just don't see the point.

 

[2blue]

Well I am surprised to see that there seems to be as many vanity cappers here as there are reported bandits.

Don't think they realize it.

 

[2blue]

Some courses can play qualifiers through winter no problem, some can't.
My course does, but in reality they shouldn't.
The course just isn't good enough, if your playing very well & have a good amount of luck, you may get close to your h/c.
Personally I don't play qualifiers Nov - March, as it's far too boggy & the rough is brutal.
I really just don't see the point.

Who decides that......... & whats the criteria?

 

[Billysboots]

We run qualifying stablefords throughout the winter. Yes, the course plays longer. But the greens are receptive and the second cut has died back, so scoring is much the same as it is throughout the year.

I enjoy winter golf. I’ve never been the sort to pack my clubs away until spring. I’ll play, and enter comps, unless the course is frozen of the rain coming down sideways.

 

[Captain_Black.]

Who decides that......... & whats the criteria?

No idea.
If people want to play qualifiers, that's up to them.

 

[2blue]

No idea.
If people want to play qualifiers, that's up to them.

I was just wondering how the course wasn't good enough?

 

[clubchamp98]

Who decides that......... & whats the criteria?

That’s a good question!
If the club decides it’s not good enough for Q comps can players still put GP cards in ?

 

[wjemather]

That’s a good question!
If the club decides it’s not good enough for Q comps can players still put GP cards in ?

The club needs authorisation to suspend submission of scores for handicapping on a measured and rated course which meets all other requirements (regarding temp greens, regulation holes, etc.).
This applies to comps as well as gp - i.e. if gp scores are acceptable for handicapping, then comp scores must also be acceptable and submitted.

 

[rulefan]

The club needs authorisation to suspend submission of scores for handicapping on a measured and rated course which meets all other requirements (regarding temp greens, regulation holes, etc.).
This applies to comps as well as gp - i.e. if gp scores are acceptable for handicapping, then comp scores must also be acceptable and submitted..

I'm not disputing it but where is this in the manual?

 

[wjemather]

I'm not disputing it but where is this in the manual?

Post #37

 

[Swango1980]

I put my cards in all year round if I can. Sadly, my course gets pretty waterlogged at times, and inevitably the course is set up to no allow cards to be submitted (winter greens, significantly shorter holes) a lot of the time. We also had some major works last few years, that made the course not acceptable for handicap.

In your case, why don't you just keep submitting cores, and put your theory to the test. The weather is rubbish, you'll shoot some poor scores and when that happens, it is able to pin the blame on miserable conditions. But, what I find it, golfers then tend to forget that they actually shoot good scores in the winter as well. I know a load of people who've had big handicap cuts over the winter.

Perhaps you've reached your potential at 14.6, I don't know. But, it would be interesting if you came back to us in March / April and told us how many scores you were able to submit, and what your new Index is.

 

[Orikoru]

I put my cards in all year round if I can. Sadly, my course gets pretty waterlogged at times, and inevitably the course is set up to no allow cards to be submitted (winter greens, significantly shorter holes) a lot of the time. We also had some major works last few years, that made the course not acceptable for handicap.

In your case, why don't you just keep submitting cores, and put your theory to the test. The weather is rubbish, you'll shoot some poor scores and when that happens, it is able to pin the blame on miserable conditions. But, what I find it, golfers then tend to forget that they actually shoot good scores in the winter as well. I know a load of people who've had big handicap cuts over the winter.

Perhaps you've reached your potential at 14.6, I don't know. But, it would be interesting if you came back to us in March / April and told us how many scores you were able to submit, and what your new Index is.

I know I can play to 12 or 13, I just took a backward step this year for whatever reason. That said, if I was failing to break 80 all summer it seems very unlikely that I'll be able to do it in winter. (I need to shoot 81 or better to get a cut essentially.) Unless my form has a sudden upturn that just happens to coincide with winter arriving.

 

[Swango1980]

We've already got temporary tees, winter greens getting used and soft fairways with billions of leaves on them.
Add to the above I'm lucky if I'll get half a dozen games in before the clock's change again, the last thing I want is to be putting cards in.

I wouldn't worry about putting cards in if you are on temporary greens. If you have more than 2 in play, your score is unacceptable for handicap regardless. Furthermore, if your temporary tees result in significant yardage changes to the hole / course, then it is likely the scores cannot be accepted.

The general debate of winter/summer is the handing in of scores for handicap when the course is set up to allow this to happen, and then what impact the weather may have on player performances.

 

[Orikoru]

I wouldn't worry about putting cards in if you are on temporary greens. If you have more than 2 in play, your score is unacceptable for handicap regardless. Furthermore, if your temporary tees result in significant yardage changes to the hole / course, then it is likely the scores cannot be accepted.

The general debate of winter/summer is the handing in of scores for handicap when the course is set up to allow this to happen, and then what impact the weather may have on player performances.

Can you enter a card but put 'not started' on the temp green holes? (Not that I would, I'm just curious.)

 

[Swango1980]

"No off-season: assumes all golf courses are equally fit for play all year round.

Quite an assumption. Maybe one of the wallies who think this should have tried to play proper golf a Newport this morning

I've played golf in the summer, in 40mph winds and driving rain. What is worse, the rough has grown really high and so you are very much punished if you miss the fairway.

Nobody ever seems to say that scores should be unacceptable for handicap on such days.

Yet go out on a dry winters morning with no wind, much less punishing rough (and more difficult to get to as a little less carry and roll) and receptive greens and some people start complaining that scores can't be accepted because it is a little muddy in places and they might have to wear a wooly hat and jumper.

I used to despise the fact that during winter my old club, quite a few years before I left, simply decided that there would be no qualifiers at all in winter. Despite the course being set up as normal. So we'd play winter competitions, and inevitably you'd get in form players, maybe higher handicappers, shooting 45 points and NOT getting a cut. Drove me crazy, and they ended up in contention nearly every week in the winter. That sort of issue discouraged many from playing winter golf. Once we played qualifiers every time we could, we found more entered. At least they knew that individual players couldn't get away with dominating competitions for the 4 or 5 months of winter. The other good thing about allowing scores over winter is that new golfers can submit scores for their first handicap, or submit a greater amount of scores to refine their handicap, before the summer season starts.

As some have described, and even LincolnShep provided individual evidence, players can score just as well over winter and summer on many courses. Especially when you remove more than 50% of the rounds, the rubbish ones that we remember made us miserable, and only account the ones we actually played better in and that count towards our handicap.

 

[Mandofred]

I usually stop putting official scores in when November gets here. This is the first year where Oakdale is going with the green marker/tee boxes and let people put in scores during the winter.....so I might put in a few if the course ever opens up. Green tees are closer so it offsets some of the distance loss. Also mandatory fairway mats starting in Jan until the end of March.....Not sure why they are waiting until January. If you are going to do it for the first time, why not get it going by December? The course is a swamp anyway and closed today....I'd be ok doing it now.....and think it wouldn't hurt to use them in the rough as well. But if you are just playing for the heck of it you can do whatever you want.....