Winter Golf and Handicap

[Swango1980]

Can you enter a card but put 'not started' on the temp green holes? (Not that I would, I'm just curious.)

It is an interesting question, and an answer that may seem contradictory. As this has come up on Golf Monthly before.

As I remember, the answer is No. The guidance in the UK is:

"In this context CONGU® directs that scores are acceptable for handicapping purposes if:
• No more than two temporary greens are in play for an 18-hole round; or
• Only one temporary green is in play for a 9-hole round."

So, in an 18 hole round, if there are 3 or more temp greens the round automatically is unacceptable for handicap.

However, if those holes were simply closed altogether, then as I understand it you can simply put Did Not Play on the hole and allow it to count for handicap (although at my club, when any holes are closed, they also put out a message that scores cannot be submitted for handicap)

 

[garyinderry]

It doesn't feel like real golf when there is no bounce in the course. Hit and splat. That's what winter golf is in Ireland on parkland.
Thankfully we don't do qualifying comps over winter and I wouldn't play even it we did.
I do play the odd open on links over winter which is fine. It's atually enjoyable.

 

[Swango1980]

It doesn't feel like real golf when there is no bounce in the course. Hit and splat. That's what winter golf is in Ireland on parkland.
Thankfully we don't do qualifying comps over winter and I wouldn't play even it we did.
I do play the odd open on links over winter which is fine. It's atually enjoyable.

You are in the north west of Northern Ireland. Don't start trying to pretend that there is bounce on the course at any time of year

 

[Backsticks]

at my club, when any holes are closed, they also put out a message that scores cannot be submitted for handicap)

Is that your club making its own version of WHS ? Does WHS allow for such rules do you know, or is it a touch of taking the law into their own hands ?

 

[Swango1980]

Is that your club making its own version of WHS ? Does WHS allow for such rules fo you know, or is it a touch of taking the law into their own hands ?

In all honesty, I've not investigated too hardly their decision process on this one. I'm unsure if it is simply because they've closed a hole or 2, or if they've also implemented another change in the course at the same time. I've often wondered why they've said it isn't acceptable for handicap, and then notice on one hole we are playing they've made it about 150 yards shorter by where they've put the winter green, or used bucket holes on winter greens, etc.

All I know I've not come across a situation yet in which 2 or 3 holes are closed, yet they've allowed scores to be submitted. Therefore, I've never used the DNS (Did Not Start) feature when entering scores for handicap. It does get muddy over winter, so if they do close holes then perhaps the green staff simply take the opportunity to significantly change other holes to protect parts of the course, where it may not have been done out of complete necessity.

 

[garyinderry]

You are in the north west of Northern Ireland. Don't start trying to pretend that there is bounce on the course at any time of year

Haha there's usually a week of it a year.

 

[GG26]

Our club was intending to have a qualifying course over the winter for the first time by getting the course rated from the winter mats. Unfortunately, I understand there is no one in the Leicestershire Golf Union qualified to do this and so we are back to non-qualifiers until April.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I've played golf in the summer, in 40mph winds and driving rain. What is worse, the rough has grown really high and so you are very much punished if you miss the fairway.

Nobody ever seems to say that scores should be unacceptable for handicap on such days.

Yet go out on a dry winters morning with no wind, much less punishing rough (and more difficult to get to as a little less carry and roll) and receptive greens and some people start complaining that scores can't be accepted because it is a little muddy in places and they might have to wear a wooly hat and jumper.

I used to despise the fact that during winter my old club, quite a few years before I left, simply decided that there would be no qualifiers at all in winter. Despite the course being set up as normal. So we'd play winter competitions, and inevitably you'd get in form players, maybe higher handicappers, shooting 45 points and NOT getting a cut. Drove me crazy, and they ended up in contention nearly every week in the winter. That sort of issue discouraged many from playing winter golf. Once we played qualifiers every time we could, we found more entered. At least they knew that individual players couldn't get away with dominating competitions for the 4 or 5 months of winter. The other good thing about allowing scores over winter is that new golfers can submit scores for their first handicap, or submit a greater amount of scores to refine their handicap, before the summer season starts.

As some have described, and even LincolnShep provided individual evidence, players can score just as well over winter and summer on many courses. Especially when you remove more than 50% of the rounds, the rubbish ones that we remember made us miserable, and only account the ones we actually played better in and that count towards our handicap.

Interesting concept, you have my attention.

 

[D-S]

With course ratings being predominantly length based and that average flat drives are expected to roll 20 yards but are barely have any roll in winter together with the ball flying 5-10% less in single digit vs 20 degree temperatures - this means that courses are playing several hundred yards longer. When you couple this with the insistence of many stat oriented folk that the only way of reducing handicaps is by gaining length, you have to be amazed that performances are not radically different in winter (with PCC changes of 3 becoming regular occurrence).
Or maybe there is another reason or reasons for this contradiction.

 

[wjemather]

With course ratings being predominantly length based and that average flat drives are expected to roll 20 yards but are barely have any roll in winter together with the ball flying 5-10% less in single digit vs 20 degree temperatures - this means that courses are playing several hundred yards longer. When you couple this with the insistence of many stat oriented folk that the only way of reducing handicaps is by gaining length, you have to be amazed that performances are not radically different in winter (with PCC changes of 3 becoming regular occurrence).
Or maybe there is another reason or reasons for this contradiction.

Roughly speaking, for men, 300 yards is only 1.3 strokes. However, many of the rules and course conditions that prevail in winter offset this to various degrees, including: preferred lies and other "winter rules", easier rough (shorter, less thick), softer greens (more receptive, play bigger), slower greens, soft fairways (play wider), bare trees (less obstructive), etc.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting concept, you have my attention.

I'm in Lincolnshire. No idea if our geography is different. But is seems to be pretty still throughout the winter. I can get away with wearing a T-Shirt most of the winter, despite being cold there is little wind chill most rounds. Whereas I only ever remember playing really really windy rounds over the main season.

 

[Voyager EMH]

My current handicap is based on 8 scores from 16th June to 9th September. One before and two after are not in best 8.
My course is not rated from winter mats and I wouldn't want to hand in scores even if it were.
Greens and areas around greens are nowhere near as nice as in April to September. Those shots become hit-and-hope to more extent than I would be happy with, if it were affecting my handicap.
So I play social golf only in the winter for the fresh air and exercise to see some old chums from time-to-time.
When qualifiers start in April, I will have a suitable handicap for the conditions, not one based on playing soggy fairways and frosty greens.

 

[D-S]

My current handicap is based on 8 scores from 16th June to 9th September. One before and two after are not in best 8.
My course is not rated from winter mats and I wouldn't want to hand in scores even if it were.
Greens and areas around greens are nowhere near as nice as in April to September. Those shots become hit-and-hope to more extent than I would be happy with, if it were affecting my handicap.
So I play social golf only in the winter for the fresh air and exercise to see some old chums from time-to-time.
When qualifiers start in April, I will have a suitable handicap for the conditions, not one based on playing soggy fairways and frosty greens.

I agree fully with this, seems strange that people are being called vanity handicappers.

 

[rulefan]

seems strange that people are being called vanity handicappers.

"....it's winter golf and inevitably would just mean my handicap goes up, which I don't particularly want"

 

[Orikoru]

"....it's winter golf and inevitably would just mean my handicap goes up, which I don't particularly want"

Why would anyone want their handicap to go up?

 

[rulefan]

Why would anyone want their handicap to go up?

From an earlier post
"Pure vanity makes our club have qualifiers all winter."

 

[Voyager EMH]

Why would anyone want their handicap to go up?

Better chance of winning stuff?

 

[D-S]

From an earlier post
"Pure vanity makes our club have qualifiers all winter."

There is a difference in the term 'vanity handicapper' and the 'club vanity' meant here.

 

[Patster1969]

Currently we are on 3 temporary greens (they are redoing these greens), so we can't get a qualifying score in as far as I know. Also, as a few people have said, we don't really have any board comps over winter either

 

[IanM]

There is a difference in the term 'vanity handicapper' and the 'club vanity' meant here.

Ta. I didn't think it needed further explanation

Played Newport today. Its drier than its neighbours. I lost 2 balls that were within 6 feet of the fairway. Probably plugged in goo and or under leaves. No way those would be lost in USUAL CONDITIONS