WHS working well for me

Bdill93

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Is anyone aware of the number of casual rounds and how it compared to the old supplementary rounds (I naively assume its exploded, but have zero evidence).

I played with a guy yesterday who signed in, asked me to mark his card, which I was happy to do, until he picked up his ball on the first after declaring his 2 footer a gimme!?

Quite shocked, I reminded him he was playing for his handicap, and kind of apologised I was writing down no score on the first... but he was adamant in the new system gimmies were fine in casual rounds and his normal group had been doing it all year.

Obviously with 17 holes to play I was keen not to fall out, and was releived when he agreed to just putt out for the rest of the round.

Anyone else had this!? (I hope its a one off, though am nearly certain itll be gimmies all round again when hes with his normal group...)

He wasnt a particularly low handicapper, and in his defence his handicap was reflective of his ability... but still...

Loads of guys at my place are doing gimmies and sticking rounds in. Not sure why they think they can, but they do!

Not my approach, I've missed plenty of gimmies in my time so if playing for handicap I hole out. Only time I take a gimmie is practise rounds when I just cba to putt.
 

wjemather

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Loads of guys at my place are doing gimmies and sticking rounds in. Not sure why they think they can, but they do!

Not my approach, I've missed plenty of gimmies in my time so if playing for handicap I hole out. Only time I take a gimmie is practise rounds when I just cba to putt.
Again, your handicap committee needs to be made aware so they can educate everyone.
 

HampshireHog

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Yes I have been considering that. But to be honest I will be accused of being a sore loser. So I will step back and let everyone enjoy the possibilities that could occur.
But it’s good to know that if you can just view the handicap records you can identify the bandits.. I think match play competitions are fun , but they are the obvious victims of this behaviour. The normal competitions are just not worth the effort required and a good score stays on unless you can put in 3 general play cards a week over the summer period to go up for the next big competition
You haven’t really provided any reason as to why you think this was a case of handicap manipulation.

Form goes up and down and good scores will drop out. What specifically makes you suspicious that they are actively managing their handicap odd patterns in general play score cards?
 

Bdill93

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You haven’t really provided any reason as to why you think this was a case of handicap manipulation.

Form goes up and down and good scores will drop out. What specifically makes you suspicious that they are actively managing their handicap odd patterns in general play score cards?

My best score dropped off 3 weeks ago, I wasnt even getting close to it. Since then ive carded a lowest ever score and my second lowest ever.

Sometimes weird stuff just happens!
 

Banchory Buddha

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Loads of guys at my place are doing gimmies and sticking rounds in. Not sure why they think they can, but they do!

Not my approach, I've missed plenty of gimmies in my time so if playing for handicap I hole out. Only time I take a gimmie is practise rounds when I just cba to putt.
I can't get my head round why they would think this is correct? It just further emphasizes the farce that it is.
 

Banchory Buddha

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There is no automatic solution, and there is never likely to be. The handicap system is a peer review system, which means all golfers have responsibility for maintaining the integrity of it. If you believe anyone is acting unscrupulously, you need to fulfil your responsibilities and submit a report/complaint to the relevant handicap committee.
Maybe not an automatic solution, but I can't see WHS in its current form lasting more than a couple of years, the complaints are too many for the authorities to sit back slapping themselves on the back. It'll be tweeked (probably in a very small way), it still won't be as good as UHS, but it'll be their "solution"
 

Bdill93

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I can't get my head round why they would think this is correct? It just further emphasizes the farce that it is.

Honestly not sure. Theres never been anything to suggest that it would be acceptable.

I suppose its the casual round element, they obviously adhere to rules in comps - pretty strict on rules in comps at our place!
 

HampshireHog

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My best score dropped off 3 weeks ago, I wasnt even getting close to it. Since then ive carded a lowest ever score and my second lowest ever.

Sometimes weird stuff just happens!
That’s my point good scores go eventually. That’s how the system works. At my ability things like work stress and minor aches and pains can affect my form if is ongoing. Fully, accept that if someone only bangs a load of general play scores after a good round that is suspicious.
 

Swango1980

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Honestly not sure. Theres never been anything to suggest that it would be acceptable.

I suppose its the casual round element, they obviously adhere to rules in comps - pretty strict on rules in comps at our place!
It is the sort of thing that would happen regardless of the handicap system in place. Just having more of an impact now as many more golfers are sticking in general play rounds.

At my new club, I have also heard roll up groups play gimmes and hand in cards (a group of us joined from my old club, and one of the group told me this after playing in the roll up, he was quite shocked as well). Another roll up group have an agreement they'll only hand in scores if a player shoots 38 points or more. This is the sort of behaviour that happens when you permit scores from social golf to be entered for handicap. It is not malicious behaviour 99% of the time. It is just a more relaxed, unofficial, "this is the way we do things" attitude, compared to the more official, organised, formal feel of a competition. Clubs can better educate players and hopefully make things better. But, it is not going to eliminate many of these issues, as many players, for example, will never ditch a habit of a life time and suddenly not play gimmes.
 

jim8flog

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If I was unscrupulous I could add a few more poor cards in and jump up quite nicely, but my morals prevent me from doing so.
Lesson learned though don’t bother playing competitions until the system has got a solution.

So, depending on what a players historical scores are, they could quickly get juice increases if they could submit a few rounds and remove several from their top 8. The skill will be for such players to time their score entry, so that they get the biggest increase immediately prior to entering their biggest event(s) of the year.


Until a player the reaches the hard cap.
 

harpo_72

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You haven’t really provided any reason as to why you think this was a case of handicap manipulation.

Form goes up and down and good scores will drop out. What specifically makes you suspicious that they are actively managing their handicap odd patterns in general play score cards?
General play and ball striking, he opened with a 300 yard drive and 25 yard flick to the first. Played bladed irons, struck the ball cleanly from the rough with back spin to the green. 9 irons were flying in from 160+ yards, out of bunkers cleanly … it wasn’t a 15 handicapper‘s game. The opening statement was “I prefer match play because I can’t play 18 holes“ was a bit odd and the scoring record on the stableford competitions showing 6-7 blobs a round with a sprinkling of good rounds in the low 80s … it’s just the number of bad rounds and how they have removed his good scores. I give most people the benefit of the doubt, but the shots started flying into the flags and were always straight. Which made me start to think there was some dodgey stuff afoot. Hence going through his historical rounds.
 

harpo_72

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interested to know what you mean by this.
Your 8 best scores are taken from your last 20 rounds … put in a lot of rounds and the window moves, making a new set of 8 best scores. This guy moved his in 5 rounds from 8.3 to 13.5 on the index
 

Swango1980

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Until a player the reaches the hard cap.
Absolutely, that is the one condition. Although, an increase of up to 6 shots (on many courses based on typical slope) is still a nice boost to course handicap. And, if they could arguably inflate this year after year, unless they submit more good scores to get back down to their previous low index level.
 

harpo_72

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Sorry, that's just nowhere near good enough. If you believe there is an issue, you have a responsibility to report it and not be part of the problem.
It will be interesting to see if others have commented or hold opinions … I don’t normally engage on these matters, I deal with it my way. I will keep an eye out but no more match play competitions
 

wjemather

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Your 8 best scores are taken from your last 20 rounds … put in a lot of rounds and the window moves, making a new set of 8 best scores. This guy moved his in 5 rounds from 8.3 to 13.5 on the index
Hard cap is 5 above the low index. Assuming more than 20 scores on their record and the indexes given are recent, the increase you describe is not possible without intervention by a handicap secretary.

If they have very few scores, such movement is not unusual when a great round is submitted in the first few.
 
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sweaty sock

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Just did a quick calc....

In 7 rounds I could be off 5 shots higher (including the soft cap adjustments) it would only mean not playing to within 5 shots of my handicap which could happen without manipulation. If i only played in organised comps, I could play 7 times in 10 days.
 

Bdill93

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Just did a quick calc....

In 7 rounds I could be off 5 shots higher (including the soft cap adjustments) it would only mean not playing to within 5 shots of my handicap which could happen without manipulation. If i only played in organised comps, I could play 7 times in 10 days.

Ive done this myself recently. Just had a bad couple of months. 7 scores submitted, none of which are "counting scores" but did push out my lowest round our of my best 8! Since replaced with an even better score and now at my lowest ever HI.
 
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