WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

mikejohnchapman

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I am the ladies handicap secretary at my club and several handicaps have changed mine included and I haven’t played. I was wondering if any other clubs were encountering problems. Perhaps a software update at EG has affected rounding calculations.
Could it be related to the low index being changed on the 1 year anniversary and thus the soft cap recalculating on the existing 20 scores?
 

Golfie

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Yesterday Club V1 handicap differed from EG, only by 0.2 (but did affect affect number of strokes received) but now the same. Past record of handicaps for rounds has also changed. Probably wishful thinking but would be nice to know the cause 😄
 

rulefan

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Yesterday Club V1 handicap differed from EG, only by 0.2 (but did affect affect number of strokes received) but now the same. Past record of handicaps for rounds has also changed. Probably wishful thinking but would be nice to know the cause 😄
You probably find out by contacting WHS support.

Past record of handicaps for rounds has also changed.
Where? On V1 or WHS?
 

Golfie

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Previously just EG but today both. So for example a competition entered with a WHI of 16.5 (EG index at time) has now changed to 16.3. Therefore actual card differs. My handicap on the other hand unfortunately went up 0.2, although on the positive side I have now gained a stroke in a knockout I’m due to play. Not sure opponents will be happy though.
 
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I've just seen this posted on IG:

We were made aware by a number of customers that some players had a handicap index change applied in the overnight process yesterday, despite having not played golf for some time.

We immediately contacted DotGolf to ask for an explanation, please see below;

In the last 24-48 hours, some golfers who have played 9 hole rounds and have scores recorded within WHS may have seen a slight change in their handicap index.

This is a result of a challenge to the interpretation of the technical specification of WHS regarding the 9 hole score differential, and after discussion and agreement with the Unions, and to ensure that players’ handicap index are correctly calculated, any affected 9 hole score differentials have been re-calculated and changes applied to players’ scoring records.

Note not all golfers are affected, not all golfers with 9H scores in their latest 20 scores will have a change to HI, and the change for most golfers will be minimal.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and for the lack of advance notice.

If you have any further queries regarding this, please contact your Union support team who may be able to look at individual cases.

intelligentgolf
 

Golfie

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I've just seen this posted on IG:

We were made aware by a number of customers that some players had a handicap index change applied in the overnight process yesterday, despite having not played golf for some time.

We immediately contacted DotGolf to ask for an explanation, please see below;

In the last 24-48 hours, some golfers who have played 9 hole rounds and have scores recorded within WHS may have seen a slight change in their handicap index.

This is a result of a challenge to the interpretation of the technical specification of WHS regarding the 9 hole score differential, and after discussion and agreement with the Unions, and to ensure that players’ handicap index are correctly calculated, any affected 9 hole score differentials have been re-calculated and changes applied to players’ scoring records.

Note not all golfers are affected, not all golfers with 9H scores in their latest 20 scores will have a change to HI, and the change for most golfers will be minimal.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and for the lack of advance notice.

If you have any further queries regarding this, please contact your Union support team who may be able to look at individual cases.

intelligentgolf
Thanks. I’m sure thats the explanation. Would have been nice to have some notice.
 

IanMcC

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Probably should have led with that. ;)

Ok, so I've had a quick look and can see a few of our members HIs have come down slightly (ISV and WHS currently disagree). If I were to guess, I'd say the calculation for 9-hole differentials has been changed.
That was a very good guess in light of DotGolf's announcement. :) Can I ask what prompted you to think it was the 9 hole diffs that were askew? It happened overnight at our club, and I have sent out DotGolf's message to members before I am buried under an avalanche of emails! I went up from 8.3 to 8.4 myself. So far, everyone affected at my club seems to have went up a little, rather than down. Slope for our 9 hole is 124, Par 35 and Rating 34.3. Can you shed any light on the changes?
 

wjemather

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That was a very good guess in light of DotGolf's announcement. :) Can I ask what prompted you to think it was the 9 hole diffs that were askew? It happened overnight at our club, and I have sent out DotGolf's message to members before I am buried under an avalanche of emails! I went up from 8.3 to 8.4 myself. So far, everyone affected at my club seems to have went up a little, rather than down. Slope for our 9 hole is 124, Par 35 and Rating 34.3. Can you shed any light on the changes?
We don't have many people who submit 9-hole scores and they were the only ones who seemed to be affected, and it seemed to correlate with what was being discussed recently in another thread.

I've been advised by our RHA that dotgolf was simply and incorrectly using the 9hCH for the second 9 (for scaling up). The calculation now simply uses the difference between the (2x9h)18hCH and the 9hCH for the second 9. When this 18hCH is an odd number, the new methodology results in 1 stroke more or fewer for the second 9 than before, and a higher or lower differential.

From a mathematical perspective, this new method is also overly simplistic and results in an anomaly, whereby a lower index player can return the same actual score as a higher index player, but the higher indexed player achieves a lower differential.
 
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rulefan

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We don't have many people who submit 9-hole scores and they were the only ones who seemed to be affected, and it seemed to correlate with what was being discussed recently in another thread.

I've been advised by our RHA that dotgolf was simply and incorrectly using the 9hCH for the second 9 (for scaling up). The calculation now simply uses the difference between the (2x9h)18hCH and the 9hCH for the second 9. When this 18hCH is an odd number, the new methodology results in 1 stroke more or fewer for the second 9 than before, and a higher or lower differential.

From a mathematical perspective, this new method is also overly simplistic and results in an anomaly, whereby a lower index player can return the same actual score as a higher index player, but the higher indexed player achieves a lower differential.
Without going back to the 'other thread', does this 'new' method tally with your proposition in the 'other thread' as opposed to voyager's original thoughts ?
 

wjemather

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Without going back to the 'other thread', does this 'new' method tally with your proposition in the 'other thread' as opposed to voyager's original thoughts ?
Assuming it is being calculated as described by our RHA (which is consistent with the explanation given in the example in Appendix I of CONGU's guidance), it's now doing what Voyager insists is "correct".
 

Swango1980

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My best 8 scores equate to 155.4/8 = 19.4

My HI is 19.3..

Whilst not an issue is there a reason for the slight discrepancy please?
Not ruling out rounding errors. But, another explanation might be that you are above the soft cap threshold. What is your lowest Index in the last year?
 

IanMcC

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Myself and MrsMcC this weekend played in a Mixed Greensome Stableford Open at Aberdovey. (Outstanding course, btw)
I used the Mixed Tee Calculator to work out our allowance before we went. Screenshot attached.

The Calculator gave us 20. At the course we received 19.
The scoring for the comp was taken off of the red ladies tees.

My question is, because the scoring was taken off of the teeset with no allowance (red/ladies), does this negate the allowance for the teeset which has an allowance (white/men)? Or did Aberdovey simply not add the allowance?
 

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wjemather

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Myself and MrsMcC this weekend played in a Mixed Greensome Stableford Open at Aberdovey. (Outstanding course, btw)
I used the Mixed Tee Calculator to work out our allowance before we went. Screenshot attached.

The Calculator gave us 20. At the course we received 19.
The scoring for the comp was taken off of the red ladies tees.

My question is, because the scoring was taken off of the teeset with no allowance (red/ladies), does this negate the allowance for the teeset which has an allowance (white/men)? Or did Aberdovey simply not add the allowance?
The mixed tee adjustment still applies irrespective of which tee set is used for scoring purposes.
 

rosecott

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I had a pleasantly positive WHS experience today.

A new member presented himself today, armed with a CDH number from Wales Golf - he had left his previous Welsh club to move to our locality. I looked up the procedure in the WHS manual and I was amazed that, in just under 2 minutes, he had a new England Golf CDH ID and his full Welsh scoring history. I was impressed.
 

IanMcC

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Some time ago there was a release either from the R&A or CONGU stating that a golf union could accept Playing Handicap or Handicap Index on the scorecard, rather than insisting on Course Handicap. I know it was posted on here somewhere, but I cant find it now either here or online. Could someone provide a link, please? Thanks in advance.
 
Joined
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I had a pleasantly positive WHS experience today.

A new member presented himself today, armed with a CDH number from Wales Golf - he had left his previous Welsh club to move to our locality. I looked up the procedure in the WHS manual and I was amazed that, in just under 2 minutes, he had a new England Golf CDH ID and his full Welsh scoring history. I was impressed.
Could you please point me in the direction of which document you found this process in?
 
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