WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[2blue]

Surely the reason for the player not returning the card is because it was not a good round and such a score submitted would give him a change to his Handicap. Is he in fact Handicapping protecting by avoiding increases.

As per Rulefan rule 7 is your friend. Specifically
l If the Handicap Committee concludes that a player failed to submit a score
for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage, it should consider
withdrawing the player’s Handicap Index, and/or applying an appropriate
penalty score (high or low depending on intent).

there is also a flow chart to follow.

Despite what we know of him that is an assumption too far & would be difficult to support. However it is likely to be our next position.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

You can set Club V1 to allow general play rounds via the PSI and via howdidido. Players sign in on either to pre register, and enter score after. Sign in and score entry are time stamped on Club V1, I've had to delete several who have entered scores minutes after signing in.

According to the latest WHS missive from EG Club Systems are being asked to change this to prevent registration and entry being close together

 

[rulefan]

According to the latest WHS missive from EG Club Systems are being asked to change this to prevent registration and entry being close together

I'm not sure if I've missed that. Have you got a link?

 

[IanMcC]

You can set Club V1 to allow general play rounds via the PSI and via howdidido. Players sign in on either to pre register, and enter score after. Sign in and score entry are time stamped on Club V1, I've had to delete several who have entered scores minutes after signing in.

When you say 'You', I presume you mean a ClubV1 administrator can set up these options. I don't have full admin rights. We needed an admin password to set up the PSI the other day, and I think I remember seeing a casual round option on there. There is certainly no way at the moment someone can pre register a casual round on either HDID or ClubV1. To be frank, I think its a daft idea opening this option up. It takes control away from the M&H people, and is surely open to abuse, as your time stamping issues prove. So, is it an option that only an administrator can set up, or am I missing something else?

 

[Swango1980]

When you say 'You', I presume you mean a ClubV1 administrator can set up these options. I don't have full admin rights. We needed an admin password to set up the PSI the other day, and I think I remember seeing a casual round option on there. There is certainly no way at the moment someone can pre register a casual round on either HDID or ClubV1. To be frank, I think its a daft idea opening this option up. It takes control away from the M&H people, and is surely open to abuse, as your time stamping issues prove. So, is it an option that only an administrator can set up, or am I missing something else?

Yes, the administrator.

Just note, golfers can also use the MyEG app to submit general play rounds as well, and I assume the other UK nations have / or will have the same functionality. Ultimately, control will be taken away from the M&H people anyway, as scores will be going on to a players record without Committee members being able to verify these scores beforehand (unless someone checks late every single night). Scores may be deleted afterwards if anything suspicious is suspected, or players chased for a no return.

As mentioned, I believe a request has been made for howdidido not to allow score entry immediately after sign in. Strangely, I don't think this is a great idea. It is clear some players will try to do this, and I have been able to identify when it goes on. If a delay was enforced, these same players could sign in, realise they cannot immediately enter their score and just simply wait for a few hours before the system allows score entry. As handicap sec, I am now none the wiser that the player did not properly pre-register properly, unless I go to the club and check all the tee times that were booked up for that day, and see when the player played. That is not going to happen.

 

[YandaB]

Yes, the administrator.

Just note, golfers can also use the MyEG app to submit general play rounds as well, and I assume the other UK nations have / or will have the same functionality. Ultimately, control will be taken away from the M&H people anyway, as scores will be going on to a players record without Committee members being able to verify these scores beforehand (unless someone checks late every single night). Scores may be deleted afterwards if anything suspicious is suspected, or players chased for a no return.

As mentioned, I believe a request has been made for howdidido not to allow score entry immediately after sign in. Strangely, I don't think this is a great idea. It is clear some players will try to do this, and I have been able to identify when it goes on. If a delay was enforced, these same players could sign in, realise they cannot immediately enter their score and just simply wait for a few hours before the system allows score entry. As handicap sec, I am now none the wiser that the player did not properly pre-register properly, unless I go to the club and check all the tee times that were booked up for that day, and see when the player played. That is not going to happen.

But the system knows all this and should be able to do all this for us. If the player is unable to register before their booked time then that is just unfortunate and they will not be able to enter a card. If they put in the numbers less than x hours (course dependent) after their tee time then that should raise a flag for checking, else all should be fine. Clearly those that want to game the system will be able to do so but will take a little more effort.

 

[Swango1980]

But the system knows all this and should be able to do all this for us. If the player is unable to register before their booked time then that is just unfortunate and they will not be able to enter a card. If they put in the numbers less than x hours (course dependent) after their tee time then that should raise a flag for checking, else all should be fine. Clearly those that want to game the system will be able to do so but will take a little more effort.

The system does not know what tee time they booked.

So, the guy who I identified signing in at 07:44, and entering score at 07:48 last weekend. With a delay in Score entry, all be does is sign in at 07:44. Realises he can't enter his score straight after, so gets on with his daily activities. Then, some time in afternoon he enters his score. Job done. I would never have been able to know the round wasn't legitimate. The system would not either.

Now, the player could do that anyway if he knew his score would be deleted if score entered straight after sign in. However, at least it is another safety net for the Committee, that when a player does that then the Committee can make a note and delete the score. Maybe send a polite e-mail. It may also put certain players higher on the Committee's radar, to do more detailed spot checks in the future.

 

[IanMcC]

Yes, the administrator.

Just note, golfers can also use the MyEG app to submit general play rounds as well, and I assume the other UK nations have / or will have the same functionality. Ultimately, control will be taken away from the M&H people anyway, as scores will be going on to a players record without Committee members being able to verify these scores beforehand (unless someone checks late every single night). Scores may be deleted afterwards if anything suspicious is suspected, or players chased for a no return.

As mentioned, I believe a request has been made for howdidido not to allow score entry immediately after sign in. Strangely, I don't think this is a great idea. It is clear some players will try to do this, and I have been able to identify when it goes on. If a delay was enforced, these same players could sign in, realise they cannot immediately enter their score and just simply wait for a few hours before the system allows score entry. As handicap sec, I am now none the wiser that the player did not properly pre-register properly, unless I go to the club and check all the tee times that were booked up for that day, and see when the player played. That is not going to happen.

Just checked again. There is no facility to enter a casual round on either the Wales Golf app or the My Wales Golf website. If they built it this way on purpose then I commend them wholeheartedly.

 

[Swango1980]

Just checked again. There is no facility to enter a casual round on either the Wales Golf app or the My Wales Golf website. If they built it this way on purpose then I commend them wholeheartedly.

How will players enter general play scores before midnight, as required under WHS requirements?

 

[IanMcC]

How will players enter general play scores before midnight, as required under WHS requirements?

They contact me in the morning to pre-register. After the round they take a pic of the card and send it to me, or put it in the box at the club for me to retrieve. I update Dashboard. If I don't get a card they get a penalty score, but that has not happened yet in a pre-registered casual round.
I realise this might be a hassle for some people, but luckily I am retired and M&H can occupy more of my time than it can for others.

 

[IanMcC]

I have had members preregister rounds from Spain and Scotland, and it has worked well.

 

[Swango1980]

They contact me in the morning to pre-register. After the round they take a pic of the card and send it to me, or put it in the box at the club for me to retrieve. I update Dashboard. If I don't get a card they get a penalty score, but that has not happened yet in a pre-registered casual round.
I realise this might be a hassle for some people, but luckily I am retired and M&H can occupy more of my time than it can for others.

That wouldn't work at our club at all. There is no way myself, or even a team of people, could monitor all general play scores every day, and enter scores as they come in, chase those that do not come in. I suspect other clubs would be in same boat.

If you went on holiday for a week or 2, do you have others that can monitor these scores every day?

Besides, with nomads having handicaps soon, it is even more inevitable there will be functionality for players to enter their scores themselves, and handicaps updated, without any third part getting involved in verification (except for their marker)

 

[IanMcC]

We have 4 comps a week. 2 mixed, one gents only and one ladies only, so the need for casual rounds at our club is minimal.
Yes, I have 2 other committee members, both also retired, and both quite local, who can step in when I am busy. I know we are more fortunate than others in this respect.
Im not really concerned with nomads. I just want to serve my members and retain as much integrity in scoring as possible.

Out of interest, Swango1980, how many casual rounds do you process in an average week?

 

[Swango1980]

We have 4 comps a week. 2 mixed, one gents only and one ladies only, so the need for casual rounds at our club is minimal.
Yes, I have 2 other committee members, both also retired, and both quite local, who can step in when I am busy. I know we are more fortunate than others in this respect.
Im not really concerned with nomads. I just want to serve my members and retain as much integrity in scoring as possible.

Out of interest, Swango1980, how many casual rounds do you process in an average week?

Having a look at Club V1, 33 players have submitted scores through howdidido / PSI this week. There may be a few more on MyEG, but really difficult to track as they are mixed in with competition scores that day. However, the number of players entering scores is generally a lot more than before, and I suspect to see a very big rise as members get used to the new system, the fact that it is so easy for them to submit scores, and once the weather gets better.

I agree, I was massively worried about abuse of the system, and the fact that I really cannot keep on top of what scores are being submitted (unlike before, where I knew a score would not touch a player's record until I verified it and checked their scorecard. However, I have now resigned myself to effectively trusting members and only acting if something very obvious crops up. In the early days, I saw many scores that had been typed in incorrectly, as I saw the card a few days later and the scores did not match what they had entered into system. Once guy types his markers score, which was 15 shots higher than his own. However, it will become more difficult to even check that every time, as I strongly suspect physical cards will not be handed in at times, just thrown in the bin after the player enters the score. I have no time to chase these scorecards.

 

[givepeaceachance]

Hi all. I'm new here & have seen this thread and have checked a few of the 54 pages! But to save me going through them all, in regards GP rounds, I was led to believe that if people are playing in a regularly organised group, it is presumed they have pre-registered for a GP score. So they then have the option to either enter their score or not at the end of the round? But obviously if they do that the timings are within a space of 5 minutes (ish) from them registering to entering scores. If measures were put in place to close that timescale how would the presumption of pre intent work??? Thanks in advance

 

[jim8flog]

Hi all. I'm new here & have seen this thread and have checked a few of the 54 pages! But to save me going through them all, in regards GP rounds, I was led to believe that if people are playing in a regularly organised group, it is presumed they have pre-registered for a GP score. So they then have the option to either enter their score or not at the end of the round? But obviously if they do that the timings are within a space of 5 minutes (ish) from them registering to entering scores. If measures were put in place to close that timescale how would the presumption of pre intent work??? Thanks in advance

It is up to your club to decide if they are going to accept such scores so check with them first

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their
intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an
authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

Worth remembering if your group have gimmes the score is not acceptable.

 

[Swango1980]

Hi all. I'm new here & have seen this thread and have checked a few of the 54 pages! But to save me going through them all, in regards GP rounds, I was led to believe that if people are playing in a regularly organised group, it is presumed they have pre-registered for a GP score. So they then have the option to either enter their score or not at the end of the round? But obviously if they do that the timings are within a space of 5 minutes (ish) from them registering to entering scores. If measures were put in place to close that timescale how would the presumption of pre intent work??? Thanks in advance

Additional to jim's response.

If the Committee have decided that the round is Acceptable for handicap, and pre-registration those assumed for those playing, players do not have the option to submit a score after. They MUST submit their score.

 

[wjemather]

ClubV1 monthly update today, which includes lots of little fixes and insignificant changes but...
DQ reasons are finally back - hurrah!
And non-qualifying casual rounds can be disabled.

 

[Old Skier]

ClubV1 monthly update today, which includes lots of little fixes and insignificant changes but...
DQ reasons are finally back - hurrah!
And non-qualifying casual rounds can be disabled.

Wheres the disable button please. I presume on the main V1 system?

 

[Old Skier]

Wheres the disable button please. I presume on the main V1 system?

Found it - Club>Settings>Golf Settings