WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[mikejohnchapman]

Firstly, Happy New Year - despite the start it must be better than the last one!

Just for interest I have been tracking the number of General Play rounds played in December and any problems so we can help / educate our members to complete them correctly. The context for this is that our clubhouse has been closed in December so no PSI terminals available.

1. We had 80 rounds played and entered / corrected so they counted for WHS (this was more than I expected)
2. Approx 20-25% were entered with errors (I only started tracking this 2/3 of the way through of the month)
3. Main issue appeared to be with HDID usage (we are a Club V1 shop) - in particular the choice between qualifying / non-qualifying rounds and finger trouble selecting the wrong course (we have 6 options)
4. Most scores were entered on-line with a few physical cards submitted. The latter were not used in any PCC calculations made. We encouraged on-line entry due to Covid restrictions but didn't demand physical cards.
5. As there is no option to enter a marker on HDID for General Play cards we now have a decision to make about whether to demand physical cards to audit the on-line entry. This could become an onerous task.

I would be interested in other people's experiences as there is a general concensus in our club to continue with this situation until the season starts and then review whether we need to change our current stance on general play rounds. I have my reservations regarding auditability but equally don't want to spend even more time checking cards.

 

[wjemather]

Firstly, Happy New Year - despite the start it must be better than the last one!

Just for interest I have been tracking the number of General Play rounds played in December and any problems so we can help / educate our members to complete them correctly. The context for this is that our clubhouse has been closed in December so no PSI terminals available.

1. We had 80 rounds played and entered / corrected so they counted for WHS (this was more than I expected)
2. Approx 20-25% were entered with errors (I only started tracking this 2/3 of the way through of the month)
3. Main issue appeared to be with HDID usage (we are a Club V1 shop) - in particular the choice between qualifying / non-qualifying rounds and finger trouble selecting the wrong course (we have 6 options)
4. Most scores were entered on-line with a few physical cards submitted. The latter were not used in any PCC calculations made. We encouraged on-line entry due to Covid restrictions but didn't demand physical cards.
5. As there is no option to enter a marker on HDID for General Play cards we now have a decision to make about whether to demand physical cards to audit the on-line entry. This could become an onerous task.

I would be interested in other people's experiences as there is a general concensus in our club to continue with this situation until the season starts and then review whether we need to change our current stance on general play rounds. I have my reservations regarding auditability but equally don't want to spend even more time checking cards.

We have required verbal confirmation of all scores via the pro shop since restrictions came in, and will probably continue with that until we start accepting physical cards again.

It would be nice to trust everyone with technology, even though it's plainly not ready and missing basic functionality, but evidence suggests that too many people just can't use it correctly without even considering the tiny minority that would abuse it.

 

[Old Skier]

Firstly, Happy New Year - despite the start it must be better than the last one!

Just for interest I have been tracking the number of General Play rounds played in December and any problems so we can help / educate our members to complete them correctly. The context for this is that our clubhouse has been closed in December so no PSI terminals available.

1. We had 80 rounds played and entered / corrected so they counted for WHS (this was more than I expected)
2. Approx 20-25% were entered with errors (I only started tracking this 2/3 of the way through of the month)
3. Main issue appeared to be with HDID usage (we are a Club V1 shop) - in particular the choice between qualifying / non-qualifying rounds and finger trouble selecting the wrong course (we have 6 options)
4. Most scores were entered on-line with a few physical cards submitted. The latter were not used in any PCC calculations made. We encouraged on-line entry due to Covid restrictions but didn't demand physical cards.
5. As there is no option to enter a marker on HDID for General Play cards we now have a decision to make about whether to demand physical cards to audit the on-line entry. This could become an onerous task.

I would be interested in other people's experiences as there is a general concensus in our club to continue with this situation until the season starts and then review whether we need to change our current stance on general play rounds. I have my reservations regarding auditability but equally don't want to spend even more time checking cards.

I have been instructed by our county handicap representative that we must have physical cards for all cards that count towards handicap including casual rounds.

 

[wjemather]

I have been instructed by our county handicap representative that we must have physical cards for all cards that count towards handicap including casual rounds.

Strange that they would issue guidance that contradicts that given by EG and The R&A.

 

[Swango1980]

Firstly, Happy New Year - despite the start it must be better than the last one!

Just for interest I have been tracking the number of General Play rounds played in December and any problems so we can help / educate our members to complete them correctly. The context for this is that our clubhouse has been closed in December so no PSI terminals available.

1. We had 80 rounds played and entered / corrected so they counted for WHS (this was more than I expected)
2. Approx 20-25% were entered with errors (I only started tracking this 2/3 of the way through of the month)
3. Main issue appeared to be with HDID usage (we are a Club V1 shop) - in particular the choice between qualifying / non-qualifying rounds and finger trouble selecting the wrong course (we have 6 options)
4. Most scores were entered on-line with a few physical cards submitted. The latter were not used in any PCC calculations made. We encouraged on-line entry due to Covid restrictions but didn't demand physical cards.
5. As there is no option to enter a marker on HDID for General Play cards we now have a decision to make about whether to demand physical cards to audit the on-line entry. This could become an onerous task.

I would be interested in other people's experiences as there is a general concensus in our club to continue with this situation until the season starts and then review whether we need to change our current stance on general play rounds. I have my reservations regarding auditability but equally don't want to spend even more time checking cards.

We have had several rounds issued, following problems:

1. A few have signed in and entered their score a few minutes later. No surprise, they were very good rounds.
2. Several have selected a non-qualifying round, so not counted to handicap. Ridiculous Club V1 gave that option.
3. A few entered scores when most of the greens were on temporary greens. I only found out as one member happened to text me. I'm not at club very often, so I'll never know how many winter greens are on on any given day. And, no one works at club who can control what is and is not submitted.
4. No idea if actual hole scores were entered correctly. And, I may only get up to club once every 2 or 3 weeks. Clearly less likely to get up now we are in Tier 4.

I've pretty much given up now on auditing scores, and I no longer have time to gather dozens of physical cards and filing away. So, I will just let members enter what they like, advise them when they ask, and deal with any errors / dodgy score entry when it is brought to my attention.

Auditing of the WHS system is simply not sustainable at a club like mine, and I've decided I'll step down as handicap secretary this year (although I'd be surprised if anyone else will take the role on). I've joined a second club, run by members. They have the advantage that the person working in pro shop can deal with comp score entry and handicaps. Despite this, they are advising members NOT to submit scores for handicap, and comps are non-qualified. They do not yet trust the system.

 

[Old Skier]

Strange that they would issue guidance that contradicts that given by EG and The R&A.

After a long drawn out phone call he insists it is covered in the rules of golf and the WHS and will send me the necessary links at some time. I cannot at this moment be bothered to scour the said rules and further more he has instructed that a physical card must be completed although electronic entry is allowed.
He insits that the guidance doesn’t negate the need of a physical card.

 

[SammmeBee]

After a long drawn out phone call he insists it is covered in the rules of golf and the WHS and will send me the necessary links at some time. I cannot at this moment be bothered to scour the said rules and further more he has instructed that a physical card must be completed although electronic entry is allowed.
He insits that the guidance doesn’t negate the need of a physical card.

No card required......

 

[wjemather]

After a long drawn out phone call he insists it is covered in the rules of golf and the WHS and will send me the necessary links at some time. I cannot at this moment be bothered to scour the said rules and further more he has instructed that a physical card must be completed although electronic entry is allowed.
He insits that the guidance doesn’t negate the need of a physical card.

I suggest you send him this: EG Framework (page 7)

 

[Old Skier]

I suggest you send him this: EG Framework (page 7)

Doesnt preclude the use of a scorecard just says it doesn’t need to be returned and it is only an interim measure would be his argument and I can sort of see where he is coming from.

 

[wjemather]

Doesnt preclude the use of a scorecard just says it doesn’t need to be returned and it is only an interim measure would be his argument and I can sort of see where he is coming from.

It's up to the committee to decide what they want to do until restrictions are lifted. He shouldn't be advising otherwise. I'd ignore him. Here is the full CONGU guidance.

 

[Swango1980]

Our comp sec has just set up a comp on Club V1 and done the draw. The handicaps are completely messed up for every player.

I should be off 10 (both course and playing), but the draw says I'm off 14. Every players handicap shown on the draw is way higher than it should be. I've gone into the competition settings, to see if the Playing Handicap calculation of 95% had been set way higher than that by mistake, but I don't even see if that option is available. Any ideas?

 

[Old Skier]

It's up to the committee to decide what they want to do until restrictions are lifted. He shouldn't be advising otherwise. I'd ignore him. Here is the full CONGU guidance.

Been trying to for the last 10 years.

 

[Old Skier]

Our comp sec has just set up a comp on Club V1 and done the draw. The handicaps are completely messed up for every player.

I should be off 10 (both course and playing), but the draw says I'm off 14. Every players handicap shown on the draw is way higher than it should be. I've gone into the competition settings, to see if the Playing Handicap calculation of 95% had been set way higher than that by mistake, but I don't even see if that option is available. Any ideas?

I reckon hes done some thing wrong in the set up, problem is now I think you’ll find it impossible to change with out deleting and starting again, just need to take a list of the draw and add after.

 

[Swango1980]

I reckon hes done some thing wrong in the set up, problem is now I think you’ll find it impossible to change with out deleting and starting again, just need to take a list of the draw and add after.

All indexes are correct. I'm not sure how he could set it up to get playing handicaps wrong. It is a qualifier, so I thought club V1 applied 95% automatically?

Could it be a new year glitch?

 

[Old Skier]

All indexes are correct. I'm not sure how he could set it up to get playing handicaps wrong. It is a qualifier, so I thought club V1 applied 95% automatically?

Could it be a new year glitch?

Your correct in your assumption that it’s automatic if you set it up as a Q

 

[wjemather]

All indexes are correct. I'm not sure how he could set it up to get playing handicaps wrong. It is a qualifier, so I thought club V1 applied 95% automatically?

Could it be a new year glitch?

Only thing I can think of (legitimately) is that he's setup multiple tees & Club Systems have finally fixed the playing handicap calculations for that?

 

[Swango1980]

Only thing I can think of (legitimately) is that he's setup multiple tees & Club Systems have finally fixed the playing handicap calculations for that?

That is it

 

[Swango1980]

Only thing I can think of (legitimately) is that he's setup multiple tees & Club Systems have finally fixed the playing handicap calculations for that?

Actually, not sure.

It is open to both men and women, men off yellow and women off red. Red CR is about 4 higher than men cr, so not sure why men playing handicaps so high. No women in field

 

[Old Skier]

All indexes are correct. I'm not sure how he could set it up to get playing handicaps wrong. It is a qualifier, so I thought club V1 applied 95% automatically?

Could it be a new year glitch?

Just set up one to see if it’s a clutch and it came out fine.

 

[Old Skier]

Actually, not sure.

It is open to both men and women, men off yellow and women off red. Red CR is about 4 higher than men cr, so not sure why men playing handicaps so high. No women in field

It wouldn’t matter if no women are in the field, the system has added the difference as if women are playing. All men’s additions should be the same.