WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[IanMcC]

Did a side by side and see where you coming from. This time I got an extra shot added to my playing handicap playing stableford where as the ladies got the shots based on medal so V1 are obviously using different algorithm, whether they are right or wrong is above my ability, I’ll try and find out from them Monday.

Thanks for that. No definitive answer as yet, then. Maybe its like a crossword puzzle. I cant see any other solution rather than CSI have it wrong, but maybe I am blinded by my own thoughts. I too will pester them on Monday, unless one of the gurus comes up with a definitive explanation here first.

 

[IanMcC]

OK, a little more evidence that Club Systems have got it wrong with 2 tee stableford comps.
England Golf have a downloadable calculator to work out allowances under the old CONGU system. I have attached a screenshot of Rhuddlan white tees against red tees. Clearly, in a medal comp the Ladies get 2 shots, but in a Stableford comp the Gents get 2 shots. (I know CONGU is no more, but it is the same principle.)
I set up a mixed stableford comp on ClubV1. To keep it simple, I made it a non qualifier to stop the 95% adjustment, leaving the handicap fraction at 1/1. I used myself and my wife as players. My Index is 7.8, so I receive 9 shots on the whites before adjustment. Karen's is 25.7, so she receives 29 shots on the reds before adjustment.
As can be seen from the screenshots, I still have 9 shots but Karen has 31 shots. The system has added 2 shots to the Ladies score instead of the Mens. They have not used the formula spelled out on page 37 of the guidance notes.
I tried a medal test comp, and it worked OK, allocating the same shots, which this time is correct.
I am going to write to CSI today, and try and speak to someone tomorrow.

 

[Old Skier]

OK, a little more evidence that Club Systems have got it wrong with 2 tee stableford comps.
England Golf have a downloadable calculator to work out allowances under the old CONGU system. I have attached a screenshot of Rhuddlan white tees against red tees. Clearly, in a medal comp the Ladies get 2 shots, but in a Stableford comp the Gents get 2 shots. (I know CONGU is no more, but it is the same principle.)
I set up a mixed stableford comp on ClubV1. To keep it simple, I made it a non qualifier to stop the 95% adjustment, leaving the handicap fraction at 1/1. I used myself and my wife as players. My Index is 7.8, so I receive 9 shots on the whites before adjustment. Karen's is 25.7, so she receives 29 shots on the reds before adjustment.
As can be seen from the screenshots, I still have 9 shots but Karen has 31 shots. The system has added 2 shots to the Ladies score instead of the Mens. They have not used the formula spelled out on page 37 of the guidance notes.
I tried a medal test comp, and it worked OK, allocating the same shots, which this time is correct.
I am going to write to CSI today, and try and speak to someone tomorrow.

Appreciate it’s a long shot and look forward to the answer you may get from Club Systems but have you checked that the correct info is set up in the courses set up area of V1.

 

[IanMcC]

Appreciate it’s a long shot and look forward to the answer you may get from Club Systems but have you checked that the correct info is set up in the courses set up area of V1.

Yes, checked all that initially.
I think the clincher is if a comparison is made between red/white and red/yellow in a test comp. Our white is the harder course, so you would expect the men to get more shots on the white course against the ladies. The way it is set up at the moment on ClubV1, playing whites the ladies get 2 shots, and playing yellows the men get 1 shot! It should be vice versa.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes, checked all that initially.
I think the clincher is if a comparison is made between red/white and red/yellow in a test comp. Our white is the harder course, so you would expect the men to get more shots on the white course against the ladies. The way it is set up at the moment on ClubV1, playing whites the ladies get 2 shots, and playing yellows the men get 1 shot! It should be vice versa.

I think something like that was happening in our comp. Ladies should have got the extra shots, but instead men were getting the shots on their Playing Handicap.

 

[wjemather]

In case you haven't seen it, here is CONGU's Mixed Tee Calculator, which quickly confirms what the adjustments should be.

 

[IanMcC]

In case you haven't seen it, here is CONGU's Mixed Tee Calculator, which quickly confirms what the adjustments should be.

Thanks for this. This is a more up to date calculator than the one I used earlier. It confirms my suspicion that ClubV1 have the incorrect set up for Stableford 2 tee comps.

 

[IanMcC]

Was going to phone CSI this morning, but got this email, so at least they are aware of the problem.

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your email.

I will now need to escalate this issue to our 2nd Line Team to review further – once they have looked into this we will come back to you directly on the contact details you have provided with an update. Unfortunately, I cannot give a specific timeframe on when this will be. You should receive a confirmation with the Support Ticket ID shortly.

Kind Regards,
Online Support
(Drew)

 

[Old Skier]

Just seen further release notes from Club Systems

bV1 Update 30/12/2020 - Release Notes
Created: 04/01/2021
We released an update to ClubV1, ClubV1 PSi, and HowDoiPay on the evening of 30/12/2020, please read below for full details of changes included in this update.
ClubV1 Competitions - When entering a score onto an optional course card we have fixed an issue with it showing as being entered on the default card Competitions - Fixed an issue with an incorrect handicap allowance being applied to single competitions which have additional courses or are mixed gender Competitions - We have updated Booking > Scorecard Labels to also show the players calculated course handicap Competitions - We have updated the Score Card Print settings in ClubV1 to have a new Course Handicap option which will then print on Competition > Sign In > Print All/Individual Score Card Competitions - When closing a competition, we have now removed the text regarding scores being submitted to CDH on closing as this is now done as soon as the score is entered Competitions - In the Start Sheet Print/Export we have renamed the include handicap option to be 'Include Handicap Index' Competitions - We have renamed the Handicap Limit to be called Playing Handicap Limit however in the next release we will be providing an option to set this to either Playing or Index Competitions - We have renamed the Division Limit to be called Playing Division Limit however in the next release we will be providing an option to set this to either Playing, Index or Course Competitions - When selecting an entered score card, we now also show the players course handicap Casual Rounds - When selecting an entered score card, we now also show the players course handicap Casual Rounds - On a person record we have now added the option to edit a casual round Casual Rounds - Fixed an issue with casual rounds not submitting to CDH when having a DNP or Played But Didn't Score Casual Rounds - We now display the signature again for the round in ClubV1 > Casual Rounds Casual Rounds - When selecting an entered casual round from the person record, we now display the format correctly, previously it would always default to strokeplay Eclectics - Updated the first-round handicap to be handicap index rather than playing Eclectics - Updated the score value for ordering from index to be the calculated fractional playing handicap Reports - When closing a competition, we have added a new report called the 'CDH Submission Review'. The report will show the total 'Number of Successful Submissions' and the total 'Number of Unsuccessful Submissions'. We will then display a 3 columned table of 'Player', 'CDH ID' and 'Reason' for the unsuccessful submissions, an example reason might be 'No CDH ID' Reports - We have now reinstated the Course Analysis report into ClubV1 and updated the report with the WHS rules Reports - We have now reinstated the Competition Summary report into ClubV1 and updated the report with the WHS rules Reports - We have now reinstated the Supplementary Scores report into ClubV1 but renamed to be the Casual Rounds report Reports - When creating a list, we have removed the reference to exact handicap on short headers Courses - Updated the cdh courses toast notification to only show for 9 or 18 hole courses which haven't been linked Courses - When deleting a course, we now also validate if there are any hidden course cards associated with that course prior to deleting Tee Sheet - Removed the 'Add Function' option for Entry level users Functions - In EPOS > Functions we have added a new option for 'Upcoming' which will display future function events and allow the user to create an invoice in advance Person - Fixed an error 500 when selecting Online Services Person - Fixed an issue with HowDidiDo/Member Hub accounts incorrectly showing as unknown in Online Services PSI Label Printing - We have updated the dialog box to open for 5 seconds rather than 2 seconds and also to be slightly larger when asking you to 'Allow this site to open the csi-cv1 link?' HowDoiPay Details - Updated the address confirmation to have a 'Confirm' button
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I see the new release CLAIMS the mixed tee issu has now been sorted. Any mathematical wizards able to do a check.

 

[rulefan]

I wonder why they are using the term 'Casual Rounds' rather the the official 'General play'

 

[IanMcC]

Just seen further release notes from Club Systems
I see the new release CLAIMS the mixed tee issue has now been sorted. Any mathematical wizards able to do a check.

Nope. Everything I have written about over the weekend is still broken. Its worse than it was now, of course. Before I just had to alter the score for one set of tees. Now all scores are wrong as both are altered wrongly.
I assume this note was about the changes made on 30/12/20 only.

 

[Old Skier]

Nope. Everything I have written about over the weekend is still broken. Its worse than it was now, of course. Before I just had to alter the score for one set of tees. Now all scores are wrong as both are altered wrongly.
I assume this note was about the changes made on 30/12/20 only.

Your right, only just picked them up.

 

[wjemather]

Nope. Everything I have written about over the weekend is still broken. Its worse than it was now, of course. Before I just had to alter the score for one set of tees. Now all scores are wrong as both are altered wrongly.
I assume this note was about the changes made on 30/12/20 only.

I assume it is still just Stableford & Par/Bogey that is wrong for mixed tee comps, as it was correct for medal play yesterday?

 

[IanMcC]

I assume it is still just Stableford & Par/Bogey that is wrong for mixed tee comps, as it was correct for medal play yesterday?

Yes. Medal play works fine.

 

[Swango1980]

Using Club V1, has anyone discovered with a way of dealing with qualification criteria in terms of Acceptable Rounds played in previous year?

Previously, players simply had "c" status or not. If they didn't, and based on the setting in Club V1, they could still enter comp and score went to their handicap record, but they finished bottom of leaderboard regardless of score.

Under WHS, assuming a comp sec wants to set similar criteria, is is possible or easy? Or, does the comp sec need to trawl through every single players Score History and then completely remove them from competition. Afterwards, enter their score separately as General Play? If this is the case, would they need direct access to WHS Portal rather than just Club V1?

 

[Old Skier]

Using Club V1, has anyone discovered with a way of dealing with qualification criteria in terms of Acceptable Rounds played in previous year?

Previously, players simply had "c" status or not. If they didn't, and based on the setting in Club V1, they could still enter comp and score went to their handicap record, but they finished bottom of leaderboard regardless of score.

Under WHS, assuming a comp sec wants to set similar criteria, is is possible or easy? Or, does the comp sec need to trawl through every single players Score History and then completely remove them from competition. Afterwards, enter their score separately as General Play? If this is the case, would they need direct access to WHS Portal rather than just Club V1?

Been discussing this for new comps terms and conditions.
A suggestion is to ensure you state the criteria on the entry sheet/on line info clearly and then just check the winners. Simplistic but saves a lot of effort.

 

[IanMcC]

We have it set in our Players Charter the same as CONGU. 3 qualifying rounds in the last 12 months. I really don't know if this is enough or not. I have asked my Committee to comment, and await replies. My own thoughts are that 5 or 6 rounds in the last 12 months would be more representative, but I wouldn't want to change our Charter again for a minor alteration. Before the season starts I will email all members with the terms.

 

[rulefan]

We have it set in our Players Charter the same as CONGU. 3 qualifying rounds in the last 12 months. I really don't know if this is enough or not. I have asked my Committee to comment, and await replies. My own thoughts are that 5 or 6 rounds in the last 12 months would be more representative, but I wouldn't want to change our Charter again for a minor alteration. Before the season starts I will email all members with the terms.

Does that mean they can't play or simply can't win a prize?

 

[IanMcC]

Does that mean they can't play or simply can't win a prize?

Anyone can play, and win vouchers, but only c status members can win a board comp.

 

[rulefan]

Anyone can play, and win vouchers, but only c status members can win a board comp.