WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[rulefan]

Been there, done that. Too many times

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I am also confident that the Dotgolf system will perform perfectly in the future management of the system.
However, the transition was/is a process completely new to them and I believe they were often laggardly in getting their exact requirement to the ISVs. In addition it is obvious that they didn't really get into the complexity of the CONGU system and the CDH data structures. Did they take the CONGU manual apart? Admittedly the national authorities may not have been technically aware but it is the responsibility of the software company to ask all the questions. There should be no 'what ifs' unasked or unanswered.
I wonder who provided the technical project manager?

Really! It's the software company's responsibility to provide what is specified by the client and contractually commits to - not to ask questions about what they might want. EG are part of CONGU and wrote the manual and the specification - if they couldn't define things clearly to DotGolf well shame on them. I'm not sure EG can wriggle off this one - they let the contract.

Whilst we will never know it would be interesting to see the change requests from EG and the costs associated compared with the original contract.

 

[Old Skier]

EG have shown over the last 3 years that they weren’t up to the job of implementing the WHS and I look forward to the next EG tour of the county’s, I won’t hold my breath.

Poor project management or no understanding of the requirements of the project. Mind you they did have some nice trips around the world to get an understanding of what was required

 

[Swango1980]

Really! It's the software company's responsibility to provide what is specified by the client and contractually commits to - not to ask questions about what they might want. EG are part of CONGU and wrote the manual and the specification - if they couldn't define things clearly to DotGolf well shame on them. I'm not sure EG can wriggle off this one - they let the contract.

I agree. A client writes a specification, or writes a brief, and it is the responsibility of the company who wins the contract to produce a product that fits that brief. It is the client (England Golf) that should be aware of the finer details, and make those clear on the brief. If they do not, it is impossible to expect the company that wins the contract to know the exact requirements more than the customer. So, how could they possibly know all the correct questions to ask?

Of course, what should have happened was a period of alpha testing, where England Golf were able to interrogate the initial product, and help in the process of fixing any bugs. Then, a period of beta testing, where local union, or even club committee members could interrogate the system further. In fact, the beta testing could simply have been the period were the CONGU system was still live, but WHS ran in parallel, giving golfers an opportunity to see it work, and giving committee members a chance to report all the bugs.

I've no idea if any alpha testing was done at all? It was obviously poor if it was done, or the initial system must have been an absolute shocker. I guess the beta testing started mid October, when clubs got access to the Platform. But, it was not that useful as no scores were being transferred to it daily. However, a plethora of bugs were still identified. And then, amazingly, it went live on 2nd November. Riddled with bugs and with a long list of things on the "to do" list. ISV platforms have also had their own buggy issues as well, although I imagine most are related to a breakdown in communication with WHS and the fact that the WHS platform is continually being updated to fix bugs, which has a knock on effect to the ISVs

 

[rulefan]

I agree. A client writes a specification, or writes a brief, and it is the responsibility of the company who wins the contract to produce a product that fits that brief. It is the client (England Golf) that should be aware of the finer details, and make those clear on the brief. If they do not, it is impossible to expect the company that wins the contract to know the exact requirements more than the customer. So, how could they possibly know all the correct questions to ask?

Clients may well know what they want ultimately but very rarely know how to get there and whether that is what they actually need. The latter two are the responsibility of the contractor.
Whether you are replacing existing manual or computerised procedures, everyone, including the people who actually operate the the procedures must be interviewed forensically. The difference between step 1 and specifically step 12 can only be identified by professional analysts. Dotgolf should have been at the innards of the CDH together with a few working handicap secretaries and the ISVs.
In fact, as Dotgolf had already written the handicap management system for NZ, they knew exactly what the final objective was. Their job was 'simply' to produce the transition software.

My impression is that Dotgolf were either called in late and or were under resourced in the UK.

However, I agree with you re paras 2 and 3. In particular the final sentence. I imagine most virtually all are related to a breakdown in communication (late specifications) with WHS and the fact that the WHS platform is continually being updated to fix bugs, which has a knock on effect to the ISVs

 

[apj0524]

Whilst getting ready for resumption of golf I thought it would be a good idea to replace our supplementary score process - would welcome any comments.

Submission of Casual Rounds for Handicap Purposes

The World Handicap System (WHS) encourages players to submit as many cards as possible to ensure their Handicap Index reflects their current playing ability. These will include all singles competitions (home and away), but players are also encouraged to submit scores for Casual Rounds whenever possible.
A Casual Round replaces the old Supplementary Score but is different in as much as all players (other than elite players) can submit scores when playing at home or away which will count towards their handicap providing the following simple conditions are met:

• The round must be registered on the day before play commences either via a PSI terminal or the HowDidIDo application.
• It must be played over a measured course of at least 9 holes which has been assessed for WHS purposes.
• It must be played to the rules of golf – including any local rules.
• It must be verified by a marker whose name should be included with the entered score.

Following the round, the gross hole-by-hole score should be entered either via a PSI terminal or HDID. If a hole is not completed for whatever reason it should be entered as a zero.
The type of rounds acceptable for Casual Rounds are; Medal, Stableford, Bogey and Maximum Score although it is anticipated that the vast majority will be Medal and Stableford. Note that singles matchplay rounds are not eligible to be registered as Casual Rounds currently.
Roll-up and society rounds will be acceptable for submission as Casual Rounds, providing they conform to the conditions above.
Following submission, the round will be verified by the Handicap Committee and then processed as part of the WHS and a new Handicap Index calculated overnight ready for play next day.
Please note that to be fair to all players you must submit a score for a Casual Round if you have registered your intention to do so. Failure to do this without and acceptable reason will result in a penalty score being added to your playing record.

Can I ask where does the statement:

A Casual Round replaces the old Supplementary Score but is different in as much as all players (other than elite players) can submit scores when playing at home or away which will count towards their handicap providing the following simple conditions are met:

Come from, are elite players (scratch) not able to submit a Casual (General Play) Round for WHS handicapping??

Thanks

 

[rulefan]

Can I ask where does the statement:

A Casual Round replaces the old Supplementary Score but is different in as much as all players (other than elite players) can submit scores when playing at home or away which will count towards their handicap providing the following simple conditions are met:

Come from, are elite players (scratch) not able to submit a Casual (General Play) Round for WHS handicapping??

Thanks

See post #514

 

[apj0524]

See post #514

Thank you missed that

 

[IanMcC]

Small but annoying point that one of you may be able to help me with. We have a member who has resigned. Her Dashboard profile has her home club elsewhere (correct) but my club still showing as her Second Club. How do I remove her second club status from dashboard?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Small but annoying point that one of you may be able to help me with. We have a member who has resigned. Her Dashboard profile has her home club elsewhere (correct) but my club still showing as her Second Club. How do I remove her second club status from dashboard?

Go into the dashboard, select the members tag, type in the members name and highlight it. When the member's details come up select the membership tag. Go down to the Membership Status line and select the Resign link, when the popup box appears select "resign" and "Save". Hopefully job done!

 

[IanMcC]

Go into the dashboard, select the members tag, type in the members name and highlight it. When the member's details come up select the membership tag. Go down to the Membership Status line and select the Resign link, when the popup box appears select "resign" and "Save". Hopefully job done!

Thanks for that. Perfect.
I knew it had to be simple. Didnt see that resign option.

 

[Old Skier]

Here we go, just had a member who is changing his email address:

Do I change it on V1 and it will upload to the dashboard
Do I change it on the dashboard and it will upload to V1
Have to change it on both manually and how will that now effect the access to his EG account
Anyone know before I wait for 8 days for an EG response.

 

[rosecott]

Today I restored to membership a member whose membership was suspended for 6 months for health reasons. I brought his record up to date with DoB, email address and data consent. When I published from the ISV software to WHS, his CDH number was not recognised and he was allocated a new one. On WHS he now appears with no handicap and no playing record despite the fact that the ISV software has a record of many handicap qualifiers played from 2019 and up to July 2020.

Has anyone had the same issue and how did you deal with it. On the face of it, a player returning to golf may have a full playing record for 2019 and a CDH number but, as far as WHS is concerned he is starting again from scratch.

 

[Swango1980]

Today I restored to membership a member whose membership was suspended for 6 months for health reasons. I brought his record up to date with DoB, email address and data consent. When I published from the ISV software to WHS, his CDH number was not recognised and he was allocated a new one. On WHS he now appears with no handicap and no playing record despite the fact that the ISV software has a record of many handicap qualifiers played from 2019 and up to July 2020.

Has anyone had the same issue and how did you deal with it. On the face of it, a player returning to golf may have a full playing record for 2019 and a CDH number but, as far as WHS is concerned he is starting again from scratch.

No idea, but interested in answer. One of our members lives in Singapore, but as a teacher comes back every summer for months, and each Xmas. So he has a good scoring history. However, due to Covid, he did not fly back this summer nor this Xmas. So, he missed out on membership renewal in August, and has no WHS Index on the Portal, as he was not on our system at the time of transition. So, when he comes back next summer (I think he will be back permanently), I am wondering if he will have to start from scratch, or his scoring history from 2018 / 2019 will still exist somewhere

 

[rosecott]

No idea, but interested in answer. One of our members lives in Singapore, but as a teacher comes back every summer for months, and each Xmas. So he has a good scoring history. However, due to Covid, he did not fly back this summer nor this Xmas. So, he missed out on membership renewal in August, and has no WHS Index on the Portal, as he was not on our system at the time of transition. So, when he comes back next summer (I think he will be back permanently), I am wondering if he will have to start from scratch, or his scoring history from 2018 / 2019 will still exist somewhere

I don't know about your ISV but, on ours, you still have access to the scoring history of past members. In the worst-case scenario, the Handicap Committee have the information to use in the allocation of a new handicap.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Here we go, just had a member who is changing his email address:

Do I change it on V1 and it will upload to the dashboard
Do I change it on the dashboard and it will upload to V1
Have to change it on both manually and how will that now effect the access to his EG account
Anyone know before I wait for 8 days for an EG response.

I did both - EG Platform and Club V1

 

[Old Skier]

I did both - EG Platform and Club V1

V1 reckon that you only need to do the ISV, not done it yet as need to speak to individual as it will obviously affect his EG and HDID access. I'm not sure Club V1 are right but I'll publish result when I eventually do it.

 

[rulefan]

I have a note taken during a Teams meeting for county secretaries and handicap advisors that administrative tasks (ie player and course data) must be done on the WHS platform but competition management is to be done through the ISV

 

[nickjdavis]

Does anyone yet know...

1) if/what/when any facility will be provided in the WHS system for clubs to conduct an annual review (I cant see anything at the moment)

2) if players will be able to print their own handicap certificates from the England Golf My Account portal (our members used to be able to do this from MasterScoreboard but the facility has been removed).

 

[Swango1980]

Does anyone yet know...

1) if/what/when any facility will be provided in the WHS system for clubs to conduct an annual review (I cant see anything at the moment)

2) if players will be able to print their own handicap certificates from the England Golf My Account portal (our members used to be able to do this from MasterScoreboard but the facility has been removed).

Not that I can confirm, but:

1. I would have thought a facility will exist at some point, but whether they actually have a definitive algorithm and system set up yet to do this is another question. Before WHS, the facility used to help during the annual review probably took years to become available.
2. We are on clubV1, and it seems that howdidido (which is associated with Club V1 and the site golfers use) allows them to print their handicap certificate. It incorrectly showed handicap as N/A in early days of WHS, but seems to be OK now. So, presumably other ISVs will be able to do this as well. I wonder if handicap certificates will actually be required anymore?