WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[Old Skier]

Had a word with our county HC. man today and he said that manually entering missing scores is not advisable as EG are working on this from their end and this will result in double entry and possible corruption of data. He also suggests leaving those were you feel index’s are wrong (to high/too low) are best left alone for now with players using the published index.

 

[IanMcC]

I'd check that the change you made on the dashboard is still there. Every change I made directly on the dashboard got reversed overnight. Gave up trying.

Yes. Its still there. I had to manually sync to ClubV1 though. I thought that would write overnight, but it didnt. Club know about it and are working on it, apparently.

 

[Swango1980]

Had a word with our county HC. man today and he said that manually entering missing scores is not advisable as EG are working on this from their end and this will result in double entry and possible corruption of data. He also suggests leaving those were you feel index’s are wrong (to high/too low) are best left alone for now with players using the published index.

Interesting. At what point did England Golf ask us all to leave the system alone and hold of on any handicap reviews? 3 weeks after launch, and the system is still broken enough for county advisors to tell us to basically stay away from it for now. To be honest, I'm close to giving up on it completely for now, and just telling members it is a broken system if they come across any issues.

 

[Old Skier]

I'm close to giving up on it completely for now, and just telling members it is a broken system if they come across any issues.

Seems like that’s the best thing for now

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Had a word with our county HC. man today and he said that manually entering missing scores is not advisable as EG are working on this from their end and this will result in double entry and possible corruption of data. He also suggests leaving those were you feel index’s are wrong (to high/too low) are best left alone for now with players using the published index.

What about applying adjustments rather than additional scores?

 

[fenwayrich]

Had a word with our county HC. man today and he said that manually entering missing scores is not advisable as EG are working on this from their end and this will result in double entry and possible corruption of data. He also suggests leaving those were you feel index’s are wrong (to high/too low) are best left alone for now with players using the published index.

That's a little disappointing. I spent a good part of last week going through our 600 odd members records and I have manually input around 300 missing scores, together with changing tees incorrectly identified as white to yellow. I thought that I had read that after November 2nd it was the club's responsibility to correct errors.

Can't say that I am impressed with the way the transition has been handled.

 

[Old Skier]

What about applying adjustments rather than additional scores?

His feelings, and it really is his feeling is that it's all best left alone. Those who appear to need adjustments will soon be sorted as soon as people start playing Qs but that's his personal recommendation.

I think its sound advise if there is still work being done at the back end.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, I just got this confirmed by the county.

I have now thrown away (recycled) all the briefing notes I was given in the build-up to the introduction of WHS as they are clearly worthless.

I wonder why I bothered to travel to the EG events in the last 2 years to be honest.

Expenses

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Expenses

Yes I've heard of those - apparently we were supposed to be grateful we were invited and our costs were a small price to pay for understanding the system.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes I've heard of those - apparently we were supposed to be grateful we were invited and our costs were a small price to pay for understanding the system.

I attended the meeting held directly by England Golf. It discussed the theory, which meant I learnt nothing ad I'd already picked up on that online, including this forum.

It didn't cover anything about how it would actually work in practice. How the software would work, entering supplementary rounds home and away, etc. That would have been useful. However, it is now clear they didn't have a clue themselves (this was near the start of the year), and it still seems there are quite a few unknowns between both WHS and the ISVs

 

[nickjdavis]

Had a word with our county HC. man today and he said that manually entering missing scores is not advisable as EG are working on this from their end and this will result in double entry and possible corruption of data. He also suggests leaving those were you feel index’s are wrong (to high/too low) are best left alone for now with players using the published index.

EG specifically told me I should enter the scores myself.

 

[Old Skier]

EG specifically told me I should enter the scores myself.

That’s why I was careful with the wording. Will be interesting to see if you end up with duplicate entries as they slowly sort faults out.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes I've heard of those - apparently we were supposed to be grateful we were invited and our costs were a small price to pay for understanding the system.

I was lucky because the last workshop was held at our club so we could have 3 people instead of two. Free lunch included.

I agree with your original comment to a certain extent.

A lot of my time was put in to preparing briefings which we put up on our own website long before the information displays packs came out. I then had to spend a long time revising our own briefings and advising players that it had changed. Biggest thing I then heard was " I might as well wait for it to come in then I will learn all about it".

Out came the manual tried to learn as much as possible only for sometime after for the manual to be "clarified" if they new they were going to clarify it why release it in the first place?

 

[nickjdavis]

That’s why I was careful with the wording. Will be interesting to see if you end up with duplicate entries as they slowly sort faults out.

EG have expressly told me that the missing scores will not be added because their system is incapable of extracting the scores from the CDH..

 

[rulefan]

EG have expressly told me that the missing scores will not be added because their system is incapable of extracting the scores from the CDH..

It depends on the reason for the scores not having got through in the first place. The IVs have managed to retrieve and upload some of the records but not others. We've had both. It may be worth checking with whs.support re individual cases.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I was lucky because the last workshop was held at our club so we could have 3 people instead of two. Free lunch included.

I agree with your original comment to a certain extent.

A lot of my time was put in to preparing briefings which we put up on our own website long before the information displays packs came out. I then had to spend a long time revising our own briefings and advising players that it had changed. Biggest thing I then heard was " I might as well wait for it to come in then I will learn all about it".

Out came the manual tried to learn as much as possible only for sometime after for the manual to be "clarified" if they new they were going to clarify it why release it in the first place?

The thing I find most disappointing as well as surprising is that this was meant to be a WW system and by commiting to software that had been specifically developed for the new system it would be fully tested and working. Also by delaying the original implementation date by 6-9 months we would be positioned to avoid many of the anticipated problems with any system of this nature.

I don't think I am naive as I have spent many years in the IT industry so I understand how complex system implementations can be and trying to interface with multiple external systems can be tricky but the interfaces are defined so it shouldn't have been this hard.

If it hadn't been for lockdown we would be in a real mess so confidence going forward isn't high.

 

[Swango1980]

The thing I find most disappointing as well as surprising is that this was meant to be a WW system and by commiting to software that had been specifically developed for the new system it would be fully tested and working. Also by delaying the original implementation date by 6-9 months we would be positioned to avoid many of the anticipated problems with any system of this nature.

I don't think I am naive as I have spent many years in the IT industry so I understand how complex system implementations can be and trying to interface with multiple external systems can be tricky but the interfaces are defined so it shouldn't have been this hard.

If it hadn't been for lockdown we would be in a real mess so confidence going forward isn't high.

Out course is now open for bookings early December. Competitions being arranged. It will be interesting how the WHS fares then, and if members see any of the issues. You are correct though, what a stroke of luck we went into lockdown. I think it would have been carnage if clubs were playing competitions early November and both WHS and ISVs were falling over themselves with bugs and inconsistencies.

 

[upsidedown]

I'm disappointed that there have been and are still ongoing problems with the transfer of data to the new system as having seen Dotgolf in action in 2007 in NZ I had full confidence in their system as what we see now on the App and EG website is not a million miles from what it was in 2007. Having then played under it for 6 years it never let me down once so hopefully once the issues are sorted it will be plain sailing for us all and the hard working volunteers on the handicap committees and Chairs of.

 

[rulefan]

I'm disappointed that there have been and are still ongoing problems with the transfer of data to the new system as having seen Dotgolf in action in 2007 in NZ I had full confidence in their system as what we see now on the App and EG website is not a million miles from what it was in 2007. Having then played under it for 6 years it never let me down once so hopefully once the issues are sorted it will be plain sailing for us all and the hard working volunteers on the handicap committees and Chairs of.

I am also confident that the Dotgolf system will perform perfectly in the future management of the system.
However, the transition was/is a process completely new to them and I believe they were often laggardly in getting their exact requirement to the ISVs. In addition it is obvious that they didn't really get into the complexity of the CONGU system and the CDH data structures. Did they take the CONGU manual apart? Admittedly the national authorities may not have been technically aware but it is the responsibility of the software company to ask all the questions. There should be no 'what ifs' unasked or unanswered.
I wonder who provided the technical project manager?

 

[nickjdavis]