WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[Old Skier]

How many of your are considered implementing the last para to cover such things as roll ups group golf etc:

Rule 2

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play.

A player is required to pre-register their intent to submit an acceptable score
in general play for handicap purposes. Such pre-registration must be made

l Beforet he player starts the round, and

l According to the requirements or conditions established by the Handicap
Committee and/or the Authorized Association.

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

 

[IanMcC]

In response to original post, I discussed this with club V1 today as we have been running test comps to see how the software copes. I was told by Club V1, you can manually change the 95% or what ever you choose to change it too for casual golf and social rounds. Once you set up as a competition, England golf and your local authority take over the maths once you have entered your score. The ISV cannot do a correction for comps they said as it is all done centrally. So basically all the ISV software will show is your Course handicap based on whatever tee you choose but not your actual playing handicap. All seems to be over complicated and control freakish.

I dont think this is fully correct. When you say 'competition', I think you mean an acceptable score. We run competitions with pick and place everywhere, so not acceptable. Yes, the 95% Playing Handicap is an option, but the software does not compensate for a 2 tee comp like it should. Ladies Playing Handicaps are simply 95%, not +1 shot also, as they should be with our course set up. Even if I set it up as an acceptable comp (qualifier) the Playing Handicap on the score input screen is unadjusted. ClubV1 used to have Appendix O adjustments. Now all of that has been removed, and it is needed. Yes, I know that Appendix O has gone, but Rule of Handicapping 6.2b is pretty similar.

 

[Old Skier]

I dont think this is fully correct. When you say 'competition', I think you mean an acceptable score. We run competitions with pick and place everywhere, so not acceptable. Yes, the 95% Playing Handicap is an option, but the software does not compensate for a 2 tee comp like it should. Ladies Playing Handicaps are simply 95%, not +1 shot also, as they should be with our course set up. Even if I set it up as an acceptable comp (qualifier) the Playing Handicap on the score input screen is unadjusted. ClubV1 used to have Appendix O adjustments. Now all of that has been removed, and it is needed. Yes, I know that Appendix O has gone, but Rule of Handicapping 6.2b is pretty similar.

On your test, have you gone as far as inputting scores to see if the adjustments has been made, or on the labels page?

 

[apj0524]

How many of your are considered implementing the last para to cover such things as roll ups group golf etc:

Rule 2

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play.

A player is required to pre-register their intent to submit an acceptable score
in general play for handicap purposes. Such pre-registration must be made

l Beforet he player starts the round, and

l According to the requirements or conditions established by the Handicap
Committee and/or the Authorized Association.

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

The short answer is yes

We have told our membership that if they wish to submit a card, outside the a normal competition, from and acceptable round of golf for WHS purposes, they need to pre-register, either on the IG app or through the pro-shop.

The reason being is that if there is no pre-registration there is no pressure of fully playing to the rules of golf which does not always happen in roll-ups, also they were not pre-registering their round and they were two shots under their CH after 15 and then had an eight and two doubles I am sure they would not put their card in, but if the they went birdie par pa they would, pre-registering avoids this

 

[rulefan]

I have circulated details of the app released by EG on Mon and have had a lot of positive response from club members. At least now when they shoot of to another course they will know what their course handicap will be.

Im going to get more shots playing Saunton West than the “Championship “ East course, always said that was the harder of the two.

Interesting. The East has higher CRs but the West has higher SRs

https://www.randa.org/chc-lookup?Co...ubName=saunton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

 

[Old Skier]

Interesting. The East has higher CRs but the West has higher SRs

https://www.randa.org/chc-lookup?Co...ubName=saunton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

To be honest, the west is considerably more difficult than the east especially off the yellows IMO. The east off the whites was all about length but that’s not the case anymore since the west’s improvements

 

[mikejohnchapman]

How many of your are considered implementing the last para to cover such things as roll ups group golf etc:

Rule 2

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play.

A player is required to pre-register their intent to submit an acceptable score
in general play for handicap purposes. Such pre-registration must be made

l Beforet he player starts the round, and

l According to the requirements or conditions established by the Handicap
Committee and/or the Authorized Association.

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

Not sure it is still appropriate but whilst we had the clubhouse was closed and the mobile app wasn't available I agreed with the organiser of our main roll-up that he would agree in advance of play which members wanted to submit a (then) supplementary score, He would then scan the relevant cards and I would enter them into the Club V1 system.

In the new system the obvious answer is for the individual to preregister via PSI or mobile app and enter theri score afterwards with subsequent approval by the handicap committee. Not sure whether this will prove a barrier for submitting casual rounds but want to avoid central input if possible.

Hopefully the members who submitted supplementaries can now see the benefit of a most realistic HI and will want to continue. We will see.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Duplicate Scores

In reviewing so players handicaps I noticed some had a large number of rounds played. Looking at the details of their playing record some score had been duplicated or even triplicated with different posting dates. Same course, score and playing date.

Most of these players were members of multiple clubs - but no all. Not sure why this has happened and wonder if closing, opening and closing a competition again (which you occasionally need to do) was the cause.

Anyway, a heads-up as it materially impacted a couple of players HI.

 

[Old Skier]

Not sure it is still appropriate but whilst we had the clubhouse was closed and the mobile app wasn't available I agreed with the organiser of our main roll-up that he would agree in advance of play which members wanted to submit a (then) supplementary score, He would then scan the relevant cards and I would enter them into the Club V1 system.

In the new system the obvious answer is for the individual to preregister via PSI or mobile app and enter theri score afterwards with subsequent approval by the handicap committee. Not sure whether this will prove a barrier for submitting casual rounds but want to avoid central input if possible.

Hopefully the members who submitted supplementaries can now see the benefit of a most realistic HI and will want to continue. We will see.

You will still have a check as you will have to approve the casual round that are entered before scores are submitted.

 

[Swango1980]

How many of your are considered implementing the last para to cover such things as roll ups group golf etc:

Rule 2

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play.

A player is required to pre-register their intent to submit an acceptable score
in general play for handicap purposes. Such pre-registration must be made

l Beforet he player starts the round, and

l According to the requirements or conditions established by the Handicap
Committee and/or the Authorized Association.

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicap purposes when playing an authorized format of play in a regular, organized event with other players.

In terms of the last paragraph (in bold), then I guess the answer is, it depends. If it is a regular gathering, where members currently roll up and play social golf, I have no intention to assume players have pre-registered when submitting cards from these rounds. Because, the problem is, there is no doubt that only a handful of players may submit their scores, others will have no intention to submit scores (I do not want to force golfers to submit scores against their wishes). So, if I assume they have pre-registered simply for playing in such an event, I'd also have to assume many have a No Return. Therefore, if they want to submit these scores, they will need to pre-register individually.

Of course, if as a group they wish to submit scores, then that is fine. However, we'd still need to find a way that they can all book in formally. If they just hand in their cards afterwards without any official set up, then I'd have no real idea who played and perhaps failed to submit a score. So, I guess this will require a club official to set these roll ups on howdidido. However, as I think about it, I can just imagine all the extra admin this will take, on top of the organisation of normal club competitions in the Mens, Seniors and Ladies sections. So, perhaps it would be easiest simply to get everyone to pre-register as a Casual Round and submit score after.

 

[IanMcC]

On your test, have you gone as far as inputting scores to see if the adjustments has been made, or on the labels page?

I set up a Mixed Stableford Comp as a qualifier (acceptable). I entered my wife and myself. Over the white tees (CR 72.2 and par 70) the men should gain 2 shots over the ladies red tees (CR 73.8 and par 74).
My handicap index is 7.8, translating to a CH of 9. I should be getting a Playing Handicap of 9+2=11, but as you can see from the screenshot, my PH is still 9, and if I insert a par score at stroke indexes 10 and 11, I only get 2 points.

 

[Swango1980]

There is a chap at our club, who is currently set as Away. However, he is a Home player, so I've tried to set this up for him on Club V1. All sorts of issues.

Firstly, his CDH number is not recognised by Club V1, and no record on WHS. However, his CDH number IS on the CDH database, I just checked. Ridiculous.

Then, on Club V1, under Player Info, I set Type of Player to Home. Then, on CDH Information, I cannot keep his CDH number, as Club V1 does not recognise it and comes up with an error. However, if I select the option that I will enter it later, or remove it, it then brings me to the "Golf" tab. On this tab, he is shown as an Away player, and the Home option is greyed out.

So, in a nutshell, it looks to be impossible for me to even set him as a Home player, let alone link him up correctly to the CDH number he has had for years.

 

[Old Skier]

There is a chap at our club, who is currently set as Away. However, he is a Home player, so I've tried to set this up for him on Club V1. All sorts of issues.

Firstly, his CDH number is not recognised by Club V1, and no record on WHS. However, his CDH number IS on the CDH database, I just checked. Ridiculous.

Then, on Club V1, under Player Info, I set Type of Player to Home. Then, on CDH Information, I cannot keep his CDH number, as Club V1 does not recognise it and comes up with an error. However, if I select the option that I will enter it later, or remove it, it then brings me to the "Golf" tab. On this tab, he is shown as an Away player, and the Home option is greyed out.

So, in a nutshell, it looks to be impossible for me to even set him as a Home player, let alone link him up correctly to the CDH number he has had for years.

What is he showing on the dashboard as and is his CDH no the same on it.

 

[Swango1980]

What is he showing on the dashboard as and is his CDH no the same on it.

His CDH is shown on Club V1, but no handicap. He does not exist on WHS at all, nor his CDH number. On the CDH database, he does exist.

I wonder if it is to do with fact he left our club in 2018, joined somewhere else. He left the other club in 2019. He came back to us (apparently), but never told me. So, he would have been set back on our Club V1 with the correct CDH. But, his other club presumably deleted him at some point, so I don't know if we automatically became his home club at that point, or he was still an Away player with no Home club. And, then during transition to WHS, it maybe ignored him as he had no home club set. Again, thinking out loud there.

Still, not being able to set him as a home player, regardless of his faulty CDH, seems pretty buggy

 

[nickjdavis]

Just had a response from EG in relation to an issue I reported 10 days ago (they're getting quicker!!)

Been informed that they will investigate the issue and will get an SME to get back to me ASAP.

I responded telling them not to waste the SME's time as the issue was resolved late last week!!!

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Whilst getting ready for resumption of golf I thought it would be a good idea to replace our supplementary score process - would welcome any comments.

Submission of Casual Rounds for Handicap Purposes

The World Handicap System (WHS) encourages players to submit as many cards as possible to ensure their Handicap Index reflects their current playing ability. These will include all singles competitions (home and away), but players are also encouraged to submit scores for Casual Rounds whenever possible.
A Casual Round replaces the old Supplementary Score but is different in as much as all players (other than elite players) can submit scores when playing at home or away which will count towards their handicap providing the following simple conditions are met:

• The round must be registered on the day before play commences either via a PSI terminal or the HowDidIDo application.
• It must be played over a measured course of at least 9 holes which has been assessed for WHS purposes.
• It must be played to the rules of golf – including any local rules.
• It must be verified by a marker whose name should be included with the entered score.

Following the round, the gross hole-by-hole score should be entered either via a PSI terminal or HDID. If a hole is not completed for whatever reason it should be entered as a zero.
The type of rounds acceptable for Casual Rounds are; Medal, Stableford, Bogey and Maximum Score although it is anticipated that the vast majority will be Medal and Stableford. Note that singles matchplay rounds are not eligible to be registered as Casual Rounds currently.
Roll-up and society rounds will be acceptable for submission as Casual Rounds, providing they conform to the conditions above.
Following submission, the round will be verified by the Handicap Committee and then processed as part of the WHS and a new Handicap Index calculated overnight ready for play next day.
Please note that to be fair to all players you must submit a score for a Casual Round if you have registered your intention to do so. Failure to do this without and acceptable reason will result in a penalty score being added to your playing record.

 

[jim8flog]

Whilst getting ready for resumption of golf I thought it would be a good idea to replace our supplementary score process - would welcome any comments.

Submission of Casual Rounds for Handicap Purposes

The World Handicap System (WHS) encourages players to submit as many cards as possible to ensure their Handicap Index reflects their current playing ability. These will include all singles competitions (home and away), but players are also encouraged to submit scores for Casual Rounds whenever possible.
A Casual Round replaces the old Supplementary Score but is different in as much as all players (other than elite players) can submit scores when playing at home or away which will count towards their handicap providing the following simple conditions are met:

• The round must be registered on the day before play commences either via a PSI terminal or the HowDidIDo application.
• It must be played over a measured course of at least 9 holes which has been assessed for WHS purposes.
• It must be played to the rules of golf – including any local rules.
• It must be verified by a marker whose name should be included with the entered score.

Following the round, the gross hole-by-hole score should be entered either via a PSI terminal or HDID. If a hole is not completed for whatever reason it should be entered as a zero.
The type of rounds acceptable for Casual Rounds are; Medal, Stableford, Bogey and Maximum Score although it is anticipated that the vast majority will be Medal and Stableford. Note that singles matchplay rounds are not eligible to be registered as Casual Rounds currently.
Roll-up and society rounds will be acceptable for submission as Casual Rounds, providing they conform to the conditions above.
Following submission, the round will be verified by the Handicap Committee and then processed as part of the WHS and a new Handicap Index calculated overnight ready for play next day.
Please note that to be fair to all players you must submit a score for a Casual Round if you have registered your intention to do so. Failure to do this without and acceptable reason will result in a penalty score being added to your playing record.

You make no mention of the course being acceptable for acceptable scores i.e. no more than 2 temporary greens. or 1 for 9 holes
I did not know elite players were not allowed to submit social rounds have you got a reference for that? Should you not define the criteria to be an elite player, there might be still quite a few that may think the equivalent to Cat 1.
Is it worth mentioning that for a 9 hole round all holes must be played.

 

[Old Skier]

@mikejohnchapman along with the suggestions above I might nick some of that. Could you expand on what a penalty score is/might be.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

@mikejohnchapman along with the suggestions above I might nick some of that. Could you expand on what a penalty score is/might be.

Feel free to steal with pride!

Had a big debate with EG and County about what a penalty score is and ................. there is no definition. Up to the Handicap Committee to decide based on "circumstances".

 

[mikejohnchapman]

You make no mention of the course being acceptable for acceptable scores i.e. no more than 2 temporary greens. or 1 for 9 holes
I did not know elite players were not allowed to submit social rounds have you got a reference for that? Should you not define the criteria to be an elite player, there might be still quite a few that may think the equivalent to Cat 1.
Is it worth mentioning that for a 9 hole round all holes must be played.

Thanks for the comments:

The reference to elite players not being able to submit casual rounds was from an England Golf briefing which highlighted what had changed from UHS and that included both the definition of Elite Players plus the fact that they were not able to post "acceptable" rounds.