Where is it going to come from.

[Swinglowandslow]

Your reply makes absolutely zero sense in quoting my post or at least the part of it you have chosen to quote.

Where in anything you have quoted have I said anything about access to charging points? Answer is nowhere have I said that in what you've quoted nor have I said it at all..

If you bothered to quote the full post you would see I said the infrastructure is basically already there.. Which it is because there's cables running all underground everywhere with electricity in, that they would need tap into. Not at any point have I said about access to charging points though for flats etc, that's clearly an assumption your making.

Yes there will need to be things consider for those in shared accommodation etc, but please if your going to make an overly passive aggressive statement quoting a post at least have the decency to quote the full post for context because it would show your reply is nonsensical because what you wrote in reply is not inferred in anyway in my original comments.

You want to bang on about hydrogen absolutely fine but don't try to twist others posts to make you look better or to make your point .

As for hydrogen it takes so much more energy to create and regardless of choice of fuel electric or hydrogen going back to my original post and its actual point the one you ignored, using either of those fuel types still means households have to find the money to replace their cars at much higher prices which most can't afford.

Steady on old chap, 'tis only another point of view😀. I didn't quote the whole of your post for brevity's sake. (But I have with this one as it is your preference).I got to the bit mentioning charging ( fast charging) , so I took it the charging issue was open to comment.And to my mind it is not only how the car can take it, but how it can be delivered?
And my comments are about that. Perhaps you will agree it is an enormous problem to overcome before electric can become viable. Maybe too big .
I do believe personally that they will progress the technology so as to reduce the batteries' size to enable them to be portable, impossible as it now is.
But if they can't?...
I still think hydrogen issues are smaller than electric and easier to overcome, but it may surprise you to learn that I would prefer electric cars , if both options were truly viable. I just don't think that charging of the present ones ( talking of cables, lampposts, public charging points etc) is at all possible .
As I say, if we get to taking the battery indoors for charging, and getting a range around 200 miles - then , Yes.
Cheers

 

[clubchamp98]

Totally agree with you, simply for me and my family it's not feasible we need access to 2 cars due to different working times and locations and we cannot afford electric cars at they're current costs so to say go careless and use taxis or public transport based on my own distances ith nearest amenities:
School 8 miles
Supermarket 9miles
Work 21miles
Hospital 14 miles

None of those are feasible walking distances on a daily basis, my 5 year can't walk that distance to school considering most of it has no paths. We don't live in a supermarket delivery catchment area, work isn't doable with public transport as the shift patterns we work and regularity of buses doesnt allow for our start times of early shifts or end times of late shifts. Plus there it would be a 2 round trip for school run due to bus timings (4hrs a day) the nearest Train station is 5 miles away. So for us not affording an electric car could mean up to 8 taxis a day, how is that cost effective for anyone, it simply wouldn't be worth going to work. I'm using myseof as an example but there is probably people out there would be hit even harder and struggle even further.

Simply saying the tech is there is one thing, but they have to look at how it affects the lives and livelihoods of those that don't have the spare income to buy these vehicles.

The government workings are for big cities first.
There are rural areas that don’t have internet yet and they have missed their own carbon targets to date .
Pie in the sky I think maybe 100 yrs.

Food delivery trucks can do 500 mile round trip on the continent refrigerated going to need some battery for that.
We still have deseil trains although electric has been about for decades.
Looks good on paper.

 

[USER1999]

Why do people want 200 (as an example) miles range? Most electric cars now, Tesla excluded, have a range of around 130 miles. This should be ample for most.

My commute is 15 miles, plus if I golf, another 10, so 40 miles a day, on an average day. Charge it 3 times a week.

Yep, there would be days when I needed 400 odd, but I could hire a car with longer range for that.

I bet most people with 2 cars could run at least one of them as an electric, with no issues.

Oh, and I have a friend with a Nissan leaf, on a 2 year lease, at 210 a month. That is cheap motoring.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

But it's not optional either. Oil won't last forever and then ad the impending threat of climate change, this has to happen.

But in the grand scheme of global warming and the enviroment, what we do in the UK has next to no effect when you consider the (illegal) production of R12 gas in China (because its cheaper and more effective for their growing air con requirements) have set the World back about 20 years with the healing of the hole in the ozone layer. We are small fry compared to the dirtiest countries on the planet and we have no clout when it comes to getting them to change their ways.

 

[clubchamp98]

Why do people want 200 (as an example) miles range? Most electric cars now, Tesla excluded, have a range of around 130 miles. This should be ample for most.

My commute is 15 miles, plus if I golf, another 10, so 40 miles a day, on an average day. Charge it 3 times a week.

Yep, there would be days when I needed 400 odd, but I could hire a car with longer range for that.

I bet most people with 2 cars could run at least one of them as an electric, with no issues.

Oh, and I have a friend with a Nissan leaf, on a 2 year lease, at 210 a month. That is cheap motoring.

My friend does 30000 miles a year in his job , he won’t do that in an electric car.
He will spend hours in a service station waiting for it to charge.
What about freight Lorry’s ,trains etc.
0% carbon is just not attainable in that time scale.
USA and China ,India etc, need to be onboard or it’s a waste of time

 

[robinthehood]

My friend does 30000 miles a year in his job , he won’t do that in an electric car.
He will spend hours in a service station waiting for it to charge.
What about freight Lorry’s ,trains etc.
0% carbon is just not attainable in that time scale.
USA and China ,India etc, need to be onboard or it’s a waste of time

The batteries used in a tesla can get to around 80% in 40 minutes charge time. That's only going to get better and better.
Not really hours and hours.
But i agree there is a long way to go before all electric becomes viable for all.
A mixture of electric and hybrid cars would be a decent stop gap .

 

[Slime]

As electric cars become more common the price will drop, that's just market forces for you . 2nd hand availability will increase aswell . This isn't going to be some overnight cut over.
But it's not optional either. Oil won't last forever and then ad the impending threat of climate change, this has to happen.

It won't happen in my lifetime, that's for sure.

 

[clubchamp98]

The batteries used in a tesla can get to around 80% in 40 minutes charge time. That's only going to get better and better.
Not really hours and hours.
But i agree there is a long way to go before all electric becomes viable for all.
A mixture of electric and hybrid cars would be a decent stop gap .

If small urban electric cars were cheaper I am sure they would suit many people .
Say you want to go on a golf club crawl around the lakes or highlands, not sure I would trust a fully laden electric car to do the mileage it says it will.
After all car manufacturers can’t be trusted to tell the truth (VW anyone).

 

[IanM]

Remember the speed with which mobile phone battery technology developed.... so I would have thought current issues will be solved quickly.

But we are all going back to the pre industrial revolution agrarian utopia according to the Greens... so we wont need the technology anyway!

 

[SocketRocket]

A big concern with electric cars is the price to replace batteries, I believe this is a considerable. The other issue to consider is resorce with the availability of lithium to manufacture them.
Hydrogen is the practical solution although I should look into how the energy cells are made, also how the hydrogen can be obtained, although its abundant its stuck to other elements like Oxygen and has to be unstuck by a process that no doubt will need considerable energy.
Must study that 🤔

 

[robinthehood]

A big concern with electric cars is the price to replace batteries, I believe this is a considerable. The other issue to consider is resorce with the availability of lithium to manufacture them.
Hydrogen is the practical solution although I should look into how the energy cells are made, also how the hydrogen can be obtained, although its abundant its stuck to other elements like Oxygen and has to be unstuck by a process that no doubt will need considerable energy.
Must study that 🤔

My next car will be electric, possibly a golf. I've not seen anything scary in the running costs and that includes any potential battery replacement . Which to be fair is only really an issue if you're looking 2nd hand. Have you got any examples of battery replacement costs.
And don't forget as more and more go electric the costs will get less and less. Thats just economy of scale.

 

[USER1999]

My friend does 30000 miles a year in his job , he won’t do that in an electric car.
He will spend hours in a service station waiting for it to charge.
What about freight Lorry’s ,trains etc.
0% carbon is just not attainable in that time scale.
USA and China ,India etc, need to be onboard or it’s a waste of time

Sure, so electric would not be suitable, but most people probably do less than 30 miles a day. I know people with diesel 4x4s that do 4k miles a year. If short journeys were mainly electric, then it would help.
After all, short journeys are when the car is at its most poluting.

 

[USER1999]

On the leased Nissan I mentioned above, battery replacement is the leasing companies problem.

 

[Dibby]

A big concern with electric cars is the price to replace batteries, I believe this is a considerable. The other issue to consider is resorce with the availability of lithium to manufacture them.
Hydrogen is the practical solution although I should look into how the energy cells are made, also how the hydrogen can be obtained, although its abundant its stuck to other elements like Oxygen and has to be unstuck by a process that no doubt will need considerable energy.
Must study that 🤔

Carbon (graphene) batteries will be the next step, as mentioned in prior post. They charge much faster than lithium, last longer and are less of a fire risk.

https://www.graphenano.com/en/una-e...na-bateria-con-autonomia-para-800-kilometros/

 

[Bunkermagnet]

On the leased Nissan I mentioned above, battery replacement is the leasing companies problem.

Many overlook the issues that creates with insuring an electric car under those conditions. Your car insurance doesn’t cover the leased battery, likewise the leasing company don’t insure the battery for you. It can be an interesting situation if your car is written off.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Carbon (graphene) batteries will be the next step, as mentioned in prior post. They charge much faster than lithium, last longer and are less of a fire risk.

https://www.graphenano.com/en/una-e...na-bateria-con-autonomia-para-800-kilometros/

It may well be, but until car companies standardise the batteries the costs for initial purchase or repair costs will always stay high, and the penetration of electric cars will be slow.

 

[robinthehood]

Sure, so electric would not be suitable, but most people probably do less than 30 miles a day. I know people with diesel 4x4s that do 4k miles a year. If short journeys were mainly electric, then it would help.
After all, short journeys are when the car is at its most poluting.

The health aspect of lower emissions gets overlooked, it's just assumed it's all about climate change

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The health aspect of lower emissions gets overlooked, it's just assumed it's all about climate change

It’s not just exhaust emissions, but also particulates and braking particulates, which electric cars produce more of, are no less harmful than exhaust emissions.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Carbon (graphene) batteries will be the next step, as mentioned in prior post. They charge much faster than lithium, last longer and are less of a fire risk.

https://www.graphenano.com/en/una-e...na-bateria-con-autonomia-para-800-kilometros/

This sounds fabulous. The only proviso I would put in is that Graphene has been quoted to the solution for all sorts in my own indutry, electronics, for many years now. So far it has barely found commerical success. It promises huge benefits but few have been able to realise them. If the article, written by the company so taken with a pinch of salt, is accurate then it could be a huge breakthrough. Let us hope so

 

[robinthehood]

It’s not just exhaust emissions, but also particulates and braking particulates, which electric cars produce more of, are no less harmful than exhaust emissions.

Do they? The Car I am looking at uses regenerative braking in the main.
A city with all electric would be a much better place than petrol/diesel .