When others 'NR' in a comp.

[jim8flog]

Sorry but you said you had low Handicappers not handing cards in to avoid getting point 1 back ? Thats a very strange statement to make because if the card isnt handed in then its an automatic .1 regardless

As for your administration issues - that just sounds like poor organisation

No it is poor players, who only think of themselves.

It is not an automatic 0.1 if the player does not enter the competition and their score on the computer system.

0.1 should not be automatic

Note 1:
Incomplete cards and ‘no returns’ have an effect on a player’s handicap. The Handicap Committee would be justified in:

1. (a) refusing to accept a card or record a ‘no return’ when the player has walked in after playing only a few holes;

Without the card being returned how do we know how many holes the player completed?

Or how do we know that the player even went out and played the round in the first place.

(although the latter is subject to a new competition entry procedure).

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No it is poor players, who only think of themselves.

It is not an automatic 0.1 if the player does not enter the competition and their score on the computer system.

0.1 should not be automatic

Note 1:
Incomplete cards and ‘no returns’ have an effect on a player’s handicap. The Handicap Committee would be justified in:

1. (a) refusing to accept a card or record a ‘no return’ when the player has walked in after playing only a few holes;

Without the card being returned how do we know how many holes the player completed?

Or how do we know that the player even went out and played the round in the first place.

(although the latter is subject to a new competition entry procedure).

So your players don’t have to on the day”enter” the Comp and pick up their card from somewhere or enter into the PSI before they go out ?

If that’s the case then people can go out and play if they have a poor round just go home and do nothing ?

Again poor competition administration it seems that is wide open for abuse.

Seems like you have a competition committee that is making life hard for themselves by not having basic competition entry procedures in place to ensure that anyone going out to play has enter the competition correctly.

 

[duncan mackie]

No it is poor players, who only think of themselves.

It is not an automatic 0.1 if the player does not enter the competition and their score on the computer system.

0.1 should not be automatic

Note 1:
Incomplete cards and ‘no returns’ have an effect on a player’s handicap. The Handicap Committee would be justified in:

1. (a) refusing to accept a card or record a ‘no return’ when the player has walked in after playing only a few holes;

Without the card being returned how do we know how many holes the player completed?

Or how do we know that the player even went out and played the round in the first place.

(although the latter is subject to a new competition entry procedure).

Jim,

You started with cat 1 players NR in order to avoid 0.1, and you are now citing players deliberately trying to gain 0.1 without even playing....whilst I recognise nearly all the various issues you have mentioned it does come over as rather confused.

Looking in you seem to be offering more competition options to your members than they are paying for you to be able to administer!

 

[Beezerk]

Plenty of nr’s at our place, it’s generally predictable as well. Same few finishing after 11 holes as their pals are already in the bar which is next to the 12th tee.

 

[jim8flog]

Jim,

You started with cat 1 players NR in order to avoid 0.1, and you are now citing players deliberately trying to gain 0.1 without even playing....whilst I recognise nearly all the various issues you have mentioned it does come over as rather confused.

Looking in you seem to be offering more competition options to your members than they are paying for you to be able to administer!

I actually started this part of my posts in response to someone else saying all the low handicappers do not bother sending in the cards (see post 42).

As previously said our introduction of a disciplinary procedure for not returning cards/ recording scores on the computer system has worked exceptionally well as players have got the message that it their responsibility to follow procedures. We have gone from around 20 per medal to just the occasional one or two.

The office is perfectly capable of running the number of comps we have, provided the players follow the procedures.

All these extra comps were brought in because they were requested by groups of players. It is also there to meet with CONGU requirements that we give all players opportunities to maintain there handicaps by playing in medals. We have two courses and a wide variety of memberships which restrict which course you can play on and the days on which you can play.

 

[Billysboots]

I try not to NR, but if I’m really slapping it round and I think there’s a chance it will impact on playing partners, I will NR out of respect for them. I’ll still continue to knock the ball round and mark my partner’s card, but won’t putt out.

On a slightly different theme, although it has been touched on here, we have a Cat 1 player at our club who is so desperate to stay there and play A Team golf that he will not turn up for his tee time in a comp in poor weather. For me, that’s far less respectful than NR’ing.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I try not to NR, but if I’m really slapping it round and I think there’s a chance it will impact on playing partners, I will NR out of respect for them. I’ll still continue to knock the ball round and mark my partner’s card, but won’t putt out.

On a slightly different theme, although it has been touched on here, we have a Cat 1 player at our club who is so desperate to stay there and play A Team golf that he will not turn up for his tee time in a comp in poor weather. For me, that’s far less respectful than NR’ing.

We've had people pulling out of comps in bad weather and indeed had players left as single on the tee with no PP's. Common sense prevailed and he made a four with the next group but as a result the club are acting now and starting to issue warnings and them competition bans

 

[Billysboots]

We've had people pulling out of comps in bad weather and indeed had players left as single on the tee with no PP's. Common sense prevailed and he made a four with the next group but as a result the club are acting now and starting to issue warnings and them competition bans

We have sanctions for those withdrawing less than 24 hours before a competition but a weak, inconsistent committee which seems reluctant to impose them. As a result, our competitions can, at times, be rather chaotic.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We have sanctions for those withdrawing less than 24 hours before a competition but a weak, inconsistent committee which seems reluctant to impose them. As a result, our competitions can, at times, be rather chaotic.

We started in draconian fashion, to get the message out there. However you cannot prove whether someone calling and saying they are ill, or they have a family illness/emergency is genuine. There's suppose to be a 24 hour cut off but what happens if someone genuinely wakes up with a migraine, flu etc and honestly can't play. It's not really easy to police although the club are keeping a record of who pulled out when (and cross referencing what the actual forecast was) and how many times they are withdrawing

 

[woofers]

Plenty of nr’s at our place, it’s generally predictable as well. Same few finishing after 11 holes as their pals are already in the bar which is next to the 12th tee.

So they've effectively withdrawn from the competition and should be recorded as such, no 0.1 increase?

 

[rosecott]

Plenty of nr’s at our place, it’s generally predictable as well. Same few finishing after 11 holes as their pals are already in the bar which is next to the 12th tee.

From the CONGU manual:

The UHS is based on the following fundamental premises:
• Every player will endeavour to make the best score he can at each hole in every qualifying round he plays
and will report all such rounds for handicap purposes.

 

[Beezerk]

So they've effectively withdrawn from the competition and should be recorded as such, no 0.1 increase?

Yes they just accept the 0.1 and get lashed up 🍺

 

[woofers]

Yes they just accept the 0.1 and get lashed up 

I think you misunderstood - I said they shouldn't get the 0.1 increase. They have withdrawn from the competition - a withdrawal does not get a 0.1 increase.
They are effectively building a false handicap.

 

[duncan mackie]

I think you misunderstood - I said they shouldn't get the 0.1 increase. They have withdrawn from the competition - a withdrawal does not get a 0.1 increase.
They are effectively building a false handicap.

The default position is that they get a 0.1 increase. If the committee knows better then they should take appropriate action outside the default.

Once you have started your round you aren't withdrawing your entry.

 

[woofers]

The default position is that they get a 0.1 increase. If the committee knows better then they should take appropriate action outside the default.

Once you have started your round you aren't withdrawing your entry.

I know that. Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly, their 'withdrawal' is more like 'walking in'. However, in IG, there is an option for the competition organiser / committee in the Manage Competition Results section to tick the 'Withdrawn' box at the bottom of the players result. I assume these clowns eventually enter a scorecard ? Doing this will still show the player on the results sheet but at the bottom with WD against his name. He will not get a 0.1 increase for this. I think this is a fair course of action for those who can't be bothered with the UHS fundamentals, or who have no respect for the competition itself. Why let them build a handicap with successive 0.1's ?

 

[duncan mackie]

I know that. Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly, their 'withdrawal' is more like 'walking in'. However, in IG, there is an option for the competition organiser / committee in the Manage Competition Results section to tick the 'Withdrawn' box at the bottom of the players result. I assume these clowns eventually enter a scorecard ? Doing this will still show the player on the results sheet but at the bottom with WD against his name. He will not get a 0.1 increase for this. I think this is a fair course of action for those who can't be bothered with the UHS fundamentals, or who have no respect for the competition itself. Why let them build a handicap with successive 0.1's ?

Your experiences have obviously led to your major concern being people building their handicaps - others, including CONGU, are generally more concerned about people maintaining too low a handicap (because it distorts the CSS calc apart from anything else).

Any member can appeal to the committee when they have had to withdraw. The guidelines to committees for this are in favour of the player (basically if they could theoretically have played to their buffer you work on that basis) but the expectation is that the player withdrawing is injured, or at the very least withdrawing for reasons outside their control.

If they walk off through choice they go up 0.1.

If the committee decide they are building a handicap they take action; which shouldn't be around a single incidence of 0.1.

 

[woofers]

If the committee decide they are building a handicap they take action; which shouldn't be around a single incidence of 0.1.

I agree with the points you make, and I do have a problem with people 'manipulating' their handicaps either way,however in the original post Beezerk said "Plenty of nr’s at our place, it’s generally predictable as well. Same few......" and it's in the context of "plenty" and "same few" that I made my remark.

We are in danger of agreeing to agree !

 

[Beezerk]

I agree with the points you make, and I do have a problem with people 'manipulating' their handicaps either way,however in the original post Beezerk said "Plenty of nr’s at our place, it’s generally predictable as well. Same few......" and it's in the context of "plenty" and "same few" that I made my remark.

We are in danger of agreeing to agree !

The guys at our place who tend to NR don't appear to be building a handicap, they just like drinking too much

 

[Beezerk]

Out of interest I just had a look at the results of some comps in August/September last year, same names crop up as NR's time and time again.
Do you think it would be monitored in the software or by the club?

 

[woofers]

Out of interest I just had a look at the results of some comps in August/September last year, same names crop up as NR's time and time again.
Do you think it would be monitored in the software or by the club?

I would say the Handicap Committee should have a look at it. Wonder if their names came up at the Annual Review.