What would YOU do?

[2blue]

I love the idea of taking 2/3 minutes to enter score on computer. Takes me longer than that just to find my name on ours. The touch screen is so poor that it takes for ever to get each score in, and when I finally get to the end it tells me I have shot a gross 93, when it was obviously a 76.:mmm:

Hahaha..... Thought you had the magic touch

 

[Liverbirdie]

I love the idea of taking 2/3 minutes to enter score on computer. Takes me longer than that just to find my name on ours. The touch screen is so poor that it takes for ever to get each score in, and when I finally get to the end it tells me I have shot a gross 93, when it was obviously a 76.:mmm:

Ok, maybe every golfer should have a golf handicap and a "tech" handicap.

Rich, me and you would be cat 5, unless they bring back the old computers.

Maybe we can have a special comp, see how these young lads get on with persimmon woods, then put their scores in on an old BBC computer.

Arrival. 9.00am, set off for home at 9 pm - telling yer!!!!

Don't know the're born......

 

[backwoodsman]

Doesn't seem fair to me. Not everyone can use a computer or see well enough to do so.

Hmmm.

Not sure l buy that as an argument. The touch screens around these days are simplicity itself and anyone could fathom it out quickly enough on the first occasion. And as to the "can't see well enough" thing - well the numbers on the screen are about four times the size as on the actual card itself - which l assumed they coped with well enough ...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Occasional glitches, yes.

What do you do if lazy sods dont do it week after week,then?

Thankfully we don't really have people that just don't bother every time. We did use to have a group that regularly didnt put their scores in - they were asked politely to put them in and now they do

I know that some of our members struggle with it and sone always will

 

[backwoodsman]

Oops. Forgot the bit about the OP.

Like most others have said - you can only go with the facts. The only one of of which is that there was no card. Which leaves you telling the player, no card, DQ, point 1, and 15 day ban. But perhaps advise if he's not happy about the ban, he can appeal to whatever is the relevant body of the club. (comps committee, general committee, council or whatever).

 

[Hobbit]

Thankfully we don't really have people that just don't bother every time. We did use to have a group that regularly didnt put their scores in - they were asked politely to put them in and now they do

I know that some of our members struggle with it and sone always will

It isn't always the technology that is the problem. More often than not my reading glasses are at home. Never had a member refuse to help.

 

[mcbroon]

The committee is unresponsive and there's a 'gang' who are threatening to leave if one guy - one guy! - rejoins?

I'd find somewhere else to play.

 

[bladeplayer]

Horrible position to be put in , I think the only way is to recommend to the member he requests a meeting/hearing with the committee & Yourself ..

Him & His marker will state that card was returned & vouch for that

You can only state that card was not in box when you collected them for checking

Now its at the feet of the people charged with running the club ..

A fair decision would be , we believe ye both , as a result unfortunately the card cannot be considered for the comp as all card return criteria, score /signatures have to be confirmed , but on this occasion the 15 day ban will not be enforced ..

In fairness in cases of doubt & with the presence of witnesses the players return of the card has to be believed

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You'd still be ignoring the rules that state your score card is returned. There is no requirement for your partner to have all scores written down.

Not at all, especially in this case where the player was adamant the card was submitted and allegedly then maliciously removed. If the score was already recorded in PSI and verified against the marker card there would be proof that a score had been returned. If there is then an issue with the card being removed that becomes an issue for the comp secretary to adjudicate on. Is there anything in the decisions of golf to give guidance?

This seems a specific and clear incident where a competitor has handed a card in (and seemingly seen/known to have done) and subsequently being punished, in draconian fashion with the ban (imo) for something beyond his control. Unless there is a specific ruling in how to proceed in such a bizarre event it has to be a judgement call surely?

 

[virtuocity]

15 day ban for not putting a card in a wooden box :rofl:

I'd be telling them to ram their membership as well. Some people take this game far too seriously.

 

[Liverbirdie]

15 day ban for not putting a card in a wooden box :rofl:

I'd be telling them to ram their membership as well. Some people take this game far too seriously.

Its normally just a competition ban, not a ban from playing the course.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Thankfully we don't really have people that just don't bother every time. We did use to have a group that regularly didnt put their scores in - they were asked politely to put them in and now they do

I know that some of our members struggle with it and sone always will

Good - some were kicking against the system, or just being lazy. Quiet word said, they start adhering, everyone's a winner.:thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Good - some were kicking against the system, or just being lazy. Quiet word said, they start adhering, everyone's a winner.:thup:

I think over the last couple of years I have learned who are the guys who may have struggled putting the score in , who are kicking back against a new system ( as we have a couple at the moment ) and the plain lazy buggers that just don't even bother because they know there is no sanctions.

We the live scoreboard we now have on IG the lazy ones seem to have found the energy to press the 20 buttons required.

As for the talk about accepting a score using the PSI and a markers score card is nonsense - it's not a signed scorecard , it can't be any simpler - the scorecard isn't present it's a DQ

 

[Liverbirdie]

I think over the last couple of years I have learned who are the guys who may have struggled putting the score in , who are kicking back against a new system ( as we have a couple at the moment ) and the plain lazy buggers that just don't even bother because they know there is no sanctions.

We the live scoreboard we now have on IG the lazy ones seem to have found the energy to press the 20 buttons required.

As for the talk about accepting a score using the PSI and a markers score card is nonsense - it's not a signed scorecard , it can't be any simpler - the scorecard isn't present it's a DQ

Fair enough, I went home with a "placed" scorecard a few years ago. I'd put it into the computer, then put the card in my back pocket. My own fault, didnt bluff it, blag it or blame anyone else, just learnt from it, moved on.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

15 day ban for not putting a card in a wooden box :rofl:

I'd be telling them to ram their membership as well. Some people take this game far too seriously.

Got to agree with this. :thup:

I can get the dq'd bit for the missing card but what is a comp ban for.

The guy turned up for his tee time, signed in, paid his comp fees, played the whole round, what is a ban being talked about, oh please you need to visit your club rules, we are playing the game out of choice and paying for it.

 

[Hobbit]

I'd agree with a ban for no shows, especially this time of year when some members can't get a tee time because of the shorter days, but not for not putting a card in. Bit draconian to say the least.

 

[duncan mackie]

Hi all,
I'm a new member here and I hate to begin with a question, but a bit of assistance from someone 'in the know' would be much appreciated.....

Okay then, recently, I had to exclude a player from a competition because I didn't find his scorecard in our card box following the competition.

He is adamant he posted the card and I have proof that he did enter the competition (signing on sheet) though only his and his markers 'word' that he did return his card.

I can appreciate that the 'non-return' is against our club rules and that I must impose our club's penalty - a D/Q and a 15 day match ban - but has the player any redress with the club I wonder? In other words, can he take issue with the club's decision and press for further investigation of the matter?

Also, as the person who collects and scores the cards, is there any way I can 'protect' myself from claims of 'fiddling?' - Not that I ever have or ever would!

Any replies/comments will be gratefully received.
Cheers
HatedOfficial

Sorry for the delay in responding...I have a different take on things from the responses I've read.

Firstly we need to separate the issues, otherwise it's impossible to make sense of them.

Dealing first with the club rules - the committee can do what they like with regard to bans etc and that's between the member, members, committee and their appointed representatives.

As to the rules of golf, here the committee don't have quite the same free hand, although their decisions will normally be binding even if incorrect. In this case the question seems to be whether the card was duly returned by the player, or not. This requires the player to have undertaken the process required by the committee - let's assume that's set out as posting the card into a designated box for further discussion. If the player does this the the rules neither contemplate the player sitting vigil over the box until the committee open it and remove his card - nor that third parties decide to remove it. So its entirely possible for the committee to conclude that a player did return a card thats not subsequently found in the box. Further, and on a seperste ruling line, the rule covering the return of cards is 6-6, and within that there is a decision that outlines one exceptional circumstance for not applying the penalty under this rule when a card isn't returned - it follows that other exceptional circumstances may exist.

Here I would favour the committee discussing the situation with both the player and his marker and then, taking into account the other relevant factors such as access, drawing their own conclusions as to whether the card was duly returned. On the outline evidence of what is documented about what was said by the parties, the security of the box and, quite importantly, the fact that neither the player nor marker had anything to gain for not returning the card in the first place (separate from arguing they had when faced with this ban thingy) there's clearly a case to be considered. The scores can be established from the card marked with agreement from player and marker quite acceptably from a rules perspective.

It's obviously sad that the club has got to this stage regarding these members; but again that's another issue completely.

 

[HatedOfficial]

15 day ban for not putting a card in a wooden box :rofl:

I'd be telling them to ram their membership as well. Some people take this game far too seriously.

No, its not for not putting their card in a wooden box, its to stop them massaging their handicaps!...............

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No, its not for not putting their card in a wooden box, its to stop them massaging their handicaps!...............

Sorry can you explain that ? Ban to stop them massaging their HC ?

 

[HatedOfficial]

Hi all.

Many thanks for all your input.

I shall resolve the issue by disqualifying the player in question, imposing the 15 day Club Match Ban (which expires tomorrow, the 21st anyway) and offer the player concerned, the option to take it further should he wish to.

Many thanks and all the best
HatedOfficial :smirk: