Competitions and Visitors

[Streptococcus]

Hi folks ... I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable, but should all the players in a 4-ball be part of the same competition? I play at a proprietary club and our owners insist that we play our competitions in 4 balls, booked a week in advance. Today was a trophy competition and two of the players in my 4ball had canceled and the 'owners' allowed 2 visitors to book their available tees. They might have had handicaps, but I'm not sure, they turned up late on the tee, they didn't use a score card and though their etiquette was fine I felt aggrieved that they took away some of my competitive edge. Am I being unreasonable?

 

[Billysboots]

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all.

I, too, play at a proprietary club and the management would not dream of slotting visitors into vacant spaces in the same tee time as members playing in competitions. The club turn tee times over to the committee on competition days, and the committee manage the tee sheet for the times allotted. Do you not have a starter who manages the start sheet, moving players up as appropriate to plug gaps?

What you describe is a proprietor who doesn’t care a jot for the members. I understand that as a proprietary club you will be run differently to a private members club, but there are limits. If that happened at ours there would be uproar - I’d certainly move elsewhere.

 

[KenL]

Hi folks ... I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable, but should all the players in a 4-ball be part of the same competition? I play at a proprietary club and our owners insist that we play our competitions in 4 balls, booked a week in advance. Today was a trophy competition and two of the players in my 4ball had canceled and the 'owners' allowed 2 visitors to book their available tees. They might have had handicaps, but I'm not sure, they turned up late on the tee, they didn't use a score card and though their etiquette was fine I felt aggrieved that they took away some of my competitive edge. Am I being unreasonable?

No, that is ridiculous.
At my club (and previous one) we could not play a singles comp in a group of more than 3.
Even if your club decided to go out in 4s, to have random visitors with you is wrong in my opinion.

 

[IanM]

That's a new one on me.

I don't even think Celtic Manor would do that in a comp.

My wife has just laughed her head off. St Pierre put a four balls out in the middle of the ladies medal (in 3s) last week, because there was a gap. But they've not stuck any visitors in a comp game.

Another reason I drive past both the above to get to where I play

 

[Slab]

Something similar happened to me about 10 years back

Small club so small in scale but the Annual champs comp comes round and I find I have a couple of brand new member/beginner golfers paired with me (they had no eligibility to win) and from the off they were asking advice etc which under normal circumstances would be great for newbies and I’d be more than happy to help with settling them into the club (which I hear later is why they were paired with me) but I just couldn’t on this occasion.
I pretty much blanked the Qs on first hole but had to tell them on 2nd fairway that I really wanted to help but I was playing in a comp so couldn’t help them until after the round
I won’t blame the grouping for not winning but it sure didn’t help my day

 

[Old Colner]

I have got to agree with the other reply's, certainly something I would not like to happen to me but our place is competitors only on Saturday comp days, although, thinking about it, it could happen on the midweek medals as they use the social golf booking sheet.

 

[LincolnShep]

I was a member at one of the world's worst-managed proprietary courses. The owner actively disliked the membership, but even he never stooped so low as to pair visitors with members playing a competition!

 

[JayB]

At my previous club, a members club, I can't say I ever noticed random visitors being paired with members in a comp but I don't see a problem with not all players in a group entering the comp. I'm not talking about the main board comps, but in the weekly medals/stablefords I often went out with 2 or 3 players in the comp and not entered myself.

 

[brendy]

There could be a few ways to look at it,
1. When you book your name of an comp day, you are booking you, not the whole time slot.
2. It makes sense to fill up unused parts of a tee time to keep the field moving in a better flow.
3. Visitors shouldn't be out in the middle of a comp.
4. Gray area but would be good manners to be asked first.

For me it wouldn't be a problem, plenty of times I've been in "my" fourball with a couple of other members join up due to holidays etc does it make a difference if they are unfamiliar members or visitors? to me its the same thing as far as my golf is concerned. Id expect at least one of the other three to have a handicap and be able to sign my card at the end of the round.

 

[KenL]

In a comp:
Unknown members = good
Random visitors = joke

 

[BiMGuy]

I’ve never understood why many golfers look upon visitors with such disdain.

I presume the OP was more annoyed by their behaviour that anything else. Which is understandable.

Would visitors joining your four ball be such a problem if it was Tiger and Rory that showed up?

 

[Albo]

At my club you can play in a comp slot but not enter the comp, I have done so a couple of times, generically s very slow, but often times I’m picking the kids up not far from the course so can play a dozen holes after work, before I get them, on a Wednesday I’ll do that and walk off once my time is up.
I see no issue with it, if I were a visitor I’d be hacked off being put out in the middle of a comp when it’s so slow.

 

[KenL]

At my club you can play in a comp slot but not enter the comp, I have done so a couple of times, generically s very slow, but often times I’m picking the kids up not far from the course so can play a dozen holes after work, before I get them, on a Wednesday I’ll do that and walk off once my time is up.
I see no issue with it, if I were a visitor I’d be hacked off being put out in the middle of a comp when it’s so slow.

An issue if it is you and just one playing the medal.
Plus, you'll leave a slower moving group behind everyone else once you walk in.
Personally, I would not want this in my comp group.

 

[Albo]

An issue if it is you and just one playing the medal.
Plus, you'll leave a slower moving group behind everyone else once you walk in.
Personally, I would not want this in my comp group.

Many issues either way I think.
They run a comp every wed and sat, so telling members they are not allowed play on either a wed or Sat unless they pay extra to enter the comp feels somewhat out of order to me

 

[BiMGuy]

Many issues either way I think.
They run a comp every wed and sat, so telling members they are not allowed play on either a wed or Sat unless they pay extra to enter the comp feels somewhat out of order to me

Taking the emotion people attach to playing in a comp out of the situation and looking at it objectively.

There is absolutely no difference in playing a comp medal/stableford round or just going out to play a round of golf.

I could see an object to being paired with someone else in a 1v1 knockout match as that is a slightly different dynamic.

 

[Imurg]

Most of our comps are book your own time and get on with it.
Some of the bigger comps have reserved times for the comp only but most others you can just turn up and either play the comp or not.
I have known a 3 ball go,out and only 1 was playing the comp.
One of the others marked the card...
However..we have no visitors on comp days and no 4 balls before 2.30

 

[Albo]

Taking the emotion people attach to playing in a comp out of the situation and looking at it objectively.

There is absolutely no difference in playing a comp medal/stableford round or just going out to play a round of golf.

I could see an object to being paired with someone else in a 1v1 knockout match as that is a slightly different dynamic.

Very true!
Even in a 1v1 knockout, is it that much of a problem to be paired with someone else? I mean, yes, it may hamper your chances of picking up that £32.90 in shop credit…

 

[BiMGuy]

Very true!
Even in a 1v1 knockout, is it that much of a problem to be paired with someone else? I mean, yes, it may hamper your chances of picking up that £32.90 in shop credit…

Not really I suppose, but when I’m playing a match I like to keep an eye on my opponent and what they are up to. That becomes slightly more difficult with a 3rd party in attendance.

It would also effect the dynamic and psychology of playing 1v1. Which is the fun stuff.

 

[Albo]

Not really I suppose, but when I’m playing a match I like to keep an eye on my opponent and what they are up to. That becomes slightly more difficult with a 3rd party in attendance.

It would also effect the dynamic and psychology of playing 1v1. Which is the fun stuff.

Aye, fair points!

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I see no difference to playing with a member i don't know or a visitor. Either could be taking their golf more seriously than the other depending upon their personality.

We're not playing for big prizes, nice to let others play and if everyone is in a fourball then accepting slow pace of play as a four sounds better than a 2 ball that can't go anywhere.

I have the other annoyance - friendly comp, spare spot the day before or day of the event, 2 of you playing comp then why can't the 3rd be a guest. Could understand no advance booking of the spot in case others want to play, but seems fine to fill the spot on the day if nobody else has joined.