Relief when unreasonable and winter rules.

[effayjay]

At our course we have winter rules that allow preferred lies in the rough. A players ball lands behind a tree, the ball is lying in ground that an animal has been scratching at. The position of the ball is such that a shot towards the green is impossible so no free relief when clearly unreasonable. However under the winter rules the player may lift clean and place the ball within 6 inches from where it lay. Having done this the ball remains in the animal scratching but now affords a clear look at the green. Is the player now allowed full relief?

 

[NearHull]

At our course we have winter rules that allow preferred lies in the rough. A players ball lands behind a tree, the ball is lying in ground that an animal has been scratching at. The position of the ball is such that a shot towards the green is impossible so no free relief when clearly unreasonable. However under the winter rules the player may lift clean and place the ball within 6 inches from where it lay. Having done this the ball remains in the animal scratching but now affords a clear look at the green. Is the player now allowed full relief?

I don’t think that the direction of the shot is relevant, relief is unreasonable is when a stroke cannot be made ( in any direction) due to other issues ie it’s also in the middle of a bush . I appreciate I’m using an extreme example.

 

[Steven Rules]

I think you misunderstand the 'clearly unreasonable' provisions. It sounds to me like a sideways shot from behind the tree towards the fairway (or somewhere else) would be very reasonable in the circumstances. Therefore free relief from these animal scratchings (aka animal hole aka abnormal course condition) is available to the player.

Initially the player may choose whether to take the 6 inch preferred relief or the 16.1a abnormal course condition relief.

16.1a (3) says:

No Relief When Clearly Unreasonable.

There is no relief under Rule 16.1:

When playing the ball as it lies is clearly unreasonable because of something from which the player is not allowed to take free relief (such as when a player is unable to make a stroke because of where the ball lies in a bush), or

When interference exists only because a player chooses a club, type of stance or swing or direction of play that is clearly unreasonable under the circumstances.

 

[Steven Rules]

...and I am not sure what wording your club uses for its preferred lie local rule but Model Local Rule E-3 does not contain any 'clearly unreasonable' exclusions. As written, a preferred lie is available under E-3 even if the ball is under a bush. Although note that, for this very reason, E-3 is not recommended for use outside the fairway in the general area.

 

[effayjay]

so if the ball is right up against the trunk (and no shot sideways or otherwise, can be taken). if the 6 inches makes a sideways shot reasonable and the ball is still in the ACC is free relief availabl?

 

[Steven Rules]

Yes. After the 6 inch preferred lie is taken the new situation is assessed on its merits. What happened before is irrelevant (except that preferred lie relief can only be taken once**).

**Addendum for clarity. After a ball has been placed and is in play under E-3, if the player then proceeds under another Rule that provides relief, E-3 may be used again.

 

[effayjay]

Yes. After the 6 inch preferred lie is taken the new situation is assessed on its merits. What happened before is irrelevant (except that preferred lie relief can only be taken once).

 

[effayjay]

Thanks

 

[rulefan]

Oh dear

"The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees)."


Presumably, you are not playing handicap qualifying rounds (either competitions or general play.

 

[effayjay]

Oh dear

"The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees)."


Presumably, you are not playing handicap qualifying rounds (either competitions or general play.

No we don’t play qualifiers in the winter.

 

[Jigger]

No we don’t play qualifiers in the winter.

I wish our course just scrapped comps in the winter as soon as qualifiers are not feasible. I’d far rather more available time for general play and then everyone can play as loose with the rules as they wish.