Virtuocity - stack and tilt swing.................

[virtuocity]

Thanks matey! VERY glad you mentioned keeping the upper body over the ball. When I move left, I tend to move everything with it. My sizeable frame often forces me to stumble forward!!!

Getting there each day at a time JO!

 

[One Planer]

James, I have a question on the S&T Pattern if you have a mo' (Sorry for the hijack Virtuocity)

From what I read of the pattern adjusting the flight as prescribed in the book comes from a combination of grip and ball position?

Would it be fair to say:

For a Fade - Everything moves to the left - Aim Left of the target, weaken grip slightly, move ball position fractionally forward?

For a Draw - Everything moves to the right - Aim to the right of target, strengthen grip slightly, move ball position fractionally back?

Does that sound about right, or have I missed the point?

 

[JustOne]

All shots (apart from when the ball is tee'd up) are played from the back side of the circle. If you move the ball forward how are you going to hit it before the club hits the ground?

actually give me a minute and I'll rewrite that in something that's more understandable..........

 

[One Planer]

All shots (apart from when the ball is tee'd up) are played from the back side of the circle. If you move the ball forward how are you going to hit it before the club hits the ground?

I don't mean, as an example, move the ball from middle stance to inside heel. I mean a ball width maybe 2 forward.

I understand that the base line flight for the pattern is a push draw, which as you say plays on the back side of the circle, but what if I want to fade the ball for a specific shot as opposed to push draw

 

[JustOne]

It's a push-fade.

If you were standing square the ball would carve off into the 1st cut on the right... so let's say you were playing to a flag on the right of a green... you'd line up roughly at the middle of the green (maybe left of center) and the ball would fade to the right edge of the green.

here it is in action by the MASTER... lined up over the fountain, playing to the extreme right edge of the green with a fade (somewhere near that bunker on the right)

[video=youtube;hRbVoU9cDZk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRbVoU9cDZk[/video]


If you were playing to a flag in the middle of a green then you'd line up more left.... and if for some reason (???) you wanted to fade a shot to a left pin position then you'd need to line up even more left.

With a fade the ball starts RIGHT... and goes more right. People get confused as they think the ball starts LEFT, probably as that's what you see at the range and to a degree what we've been taught by poor instruction.

 

[One Planer]

It's a push-fade.

If you were standing square the ball would carve off into the 1st cut on the right... so let's say you were playing to a flag on the right of a green... you'd line up roughly at the middle of the green (maybe left of center) and the ball would fade to the right edge of the green.

here it is in action by the MASTER... lined up over the fountain, playing to the extreme right edge of the green with a fade (somewhere near that bunker on the right)

[video=youtube;hRbVoU9cDZk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRbVoU9cDZk[/video]


If you were playing to a flag in the middle of a green then you'd line up more left.... and if for some reason (???) you wanted to fade a shot to a left pin position then you'd need to line up even more left.

With a fade the ball starts RIGHT... and goes more right. People get confused as they think the ball starts LEFT, probably as that's what you see at the range and to a degree what we've been taught by poor instruction.

Cheers fella :thup:

 

[JustOne]

The thing that makes the ball fade is the difference between the face and the path... if you want the ball to fade then you must control the path to be more left than the face, you can do this by aiming more left with your entire body... whilst the face still aims in the original spot, no need to weaken your grip... you just allow the face to be more open to your stance then take you 'normal' grip.

When you open your stance, generally the ball moves further back! this is fine as it gives the clubface less time to close!!! which is what you want with a fade, BUT just be aware that it doesn't go too far back else you'll get really steep. I'd say the crucial part is understanding the releationships that happen (and how they change) between club face, path and ball position when you try and 'shape' a shot.


NB:

The more forward you move a ball in your stance the more likely you are to hit the ground before you get the club to the ball.. as you've reduced the chance of getting your low point IN FRONT of the ball with your weight shift.

The more BACK you move the ball the better the chances of hitting it... too far back though and you either increase your chances of topping it... or coming down too steep.

 

[One Planer]

The thing that makes the ball fade is the difference between the face and the path... if you want the ball to fade then you must control the path to be more left than the face, you can do this by aiming more left with your entire body... whilst the face still aims in the original spot, no need to weaken your grip... you just allow the face to be more open to your stance then take you 'normal' grip.

When you open your stance, generally the ball moves further back! this is fine as it gives the clubface less time to close!!! which is what you want with a fade, BUT just be aware that it doesn't go too far back else you'll get really steep. I'd say the crucial part is understanding the releationships that happen (and how they change) between club face, path and ball position when you try and 'shape' a shot.


NB:

The more forward you move a ball in your stance the more likely you are to hit the ground before you get the club to the ball.. as you've reduced the chance of getting your low point IN FRONT of the ball with your weight shift.

The more BACK you move the ball the better the chances of hitting it... too far back though and you either increase your chances of topping it... or coming down too steep.

So how I was doing it before (Push fade) was right, just not aiming my body far enough left.

Top man James. Thanks :thup:

Edit: Again, sorry for the hijack Virtuocity

 

[JustOne]

I'd say it was most important when trying to hit a fade that you pay special attention to your shoulders... they need to be aimed as left as your stance and hips.... very often someone will open their stance but their shoulders will remain straight... and that's where the double-cross will come from... just ask Oddsocks!

Aim everything left... apart from the clubface... and swing along the line of your toes as hard as you like. The ball should start to the RIGHT of your toeline, as that's where the face is pointing.

 

[virtuocity]

Not a hijack- feel free!

I will ignore all of the above posts for now, as it is all too confusing for me! I'm still trying to pick up the basics.

 

[virtuocity]

Just been watching the DVD which talks in depth about The Flying Wedge. Took me 3 minutes to realise it wasn't referring to a PW. Doh!

However, very interesting!

My main flaws are hitting the ground before the ball and chicken wing. I always uncock my wrists just before impact.

Just before I practice tomorrow, I want to make sure I'm right. I need to MAINTAIN the flying wedge until after the follow through, right?

 

[JustOne]

Just before I practice tomorrow, I want to make sure I'm right. I need to MAINTAIN the flying wedge until after the follow through, right?

If you're doing it as a drill then it isn't full swings... so yes you'd maintain it right throughout your shortened practice swing.

 

[virtuocity]

Hmmm the DVD suggests to maintain it throughout full swings. Thoughts?

 

[JustOne]

Yes you do, there's no need to release the club head... only the arms, but if you're doing it as a drill then just perform the drill to start with. If you want to move up to full swings straight away then that's up to you. If you had a pro standing next to you on the range he'd get you to work on the drill before taking you to full swings.. as I'm not a pro, do what you like!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha! <see what I did there?>

I'll try and see if I can knock up a vid for you over the weekend :thup:

 

[virtuocity]

Ahhhhhh I geddit now. Will start off with some short swings first. I thought that you meant that the flying wedge should only be used for practice swings and half swings.

Will let you know how I get on. I know you're just itching for my next update(!)

 

[virtuocity]

I've been working hard on the 'flying wedge' stuff with very good results. Although, I noticed I was thinning my wedges causing them to go very long, 10 inches above ground level over the other side of the green.

I then realised (on hole 6 of 9 today) that I wasn't doing 'the flying wedge' with these and now my short game has improved ten-fold. Hitting the range tomorrow to really work on this as it's really killing my scores.

Looking at my stats, I worked out that if I could hit the green every time from a range of 50-100 yards then I would cut 6 or 7 shots off my 9 hole round (potentially 12 shots off of an 18 hole round), which would see me meet my 2013 target of 18 handicap.

 

[Foxholer]

Just been watching the DVD which talks in depth about The Flying Wedge. Took me 3 minutes to realise it wasn't referring to a PW. Doh!

I thought it was the cost of S&T (professional) instruction! You may have worked around that one with JO!

Just think how you are going to enjoy 'Power Accumulators'!

Hope it's going well. You seem to be enjoying the process.

 

[One Planer]

Keep at it Virt' It'll soon come together for you.

The one tip I'll give you is don't change everything at once, or try and incorparte it too quickly.

I took up the pattern at the end of my first season. At the time I was off 26 (26.4).

A lot of the pattern I already (Loosely) did, couple that with the fact I'd only been playing for about 6 months, so for me moving to the pattern was a little easier. In the following 2 full season I've dropped from 26 to my current level of 16 (15.7).

You'll get there fella. Stick at it :thup:

 

[virtuocity]

I thought it was the cost of S&T (professional) instruction! You may have worked around that one with JO!

Just think how you are going to enjoy 'Power Accumulators'!

Hope it's going well. You seem to be enjoying the process.

I'm concentrating on the House of The Flying Wedge before looking at all the accumulator stuff!!!

When I started golf at the end of the summer, I probably hit 2 duff shots (i.e. shots which either shank or trundle 30 yards from its original position) a hole. Now this is down to around 1 every 3 holes. It's difficult when you're surrounded by low handicappers on the course (and this forum) to keep in mind that it will take a while before I will be a good golfer, so I'm trying my best to enjoy the minimisation of errors and celebrate just getting a good connection on the ball.

I'm going to increase my efforts to improve the above phrase in italics over the winter as I undergo an intensive learning process of the short game (100 yards and in). Seems preposterous that I'm taking on average 4.5 shots from a range of 150 yards from the hole.

I can see this part of my game helping meet my 2013 goal.

With my swing comfortable and repeatable, I then plan on getting some extra distance from my clubs. My drives are getting me 190-210 yards in distance which I can survive with over the next year as long as I see my shots getting more accurate over time. But if I'm ever going to be a single figure golfer (says the man who always said that an 18 handicap would be just fine) then I'm going to really learn how to cover 400 yards with 2 swings of a bat.

Enjoying it? You bet.



(enter JO to tell me all of the above is rubbish hahahah)

 

[virtuocity]

Keep at it Virt' It'll soon come together for you.

The one tip I'll give you is don't change everything at once, or try and incorparte it too quickly.

I took up the pattern at the end of my first season. At the time I was off 26 (26.4).

A lot of the pattern I already (Loosely) did, couple that with the fact I'd only been playing for about 6 months, so for me moving to the pattern was a little easier. In the following 2 full season I've dropped from 26 to my current level of 16 (15.7).

You'll get there fella. Stick at it :thup:

Thanks Gareth. Nice shooting over 2.5 years mate.

Out of interest- what part of your game would get you to a handicap of, say, 10?