Virtuocity - stack and tilt swing.................

[JustOne]

having read this and realising virtuocity is very very new to golf, isnt there a danger here of analyses paralyses

Funny enough the screen shot of his impact position was taken from a video where his PGA PRO was telling him (amongst other things) that he's over the top with his swing path, needs to clear the left side, extend the legs, where the clubface should be pointing... and more.

Not only would that be equally as hard to understand (he might not even understand what she was talking about) but he'd still have to grasp why those things are important, what the fixes are and how to implement them within his swing... I don't see the difference?

I've explained what and why and how, I think it's pretty clear instead of just hitting him with jargon, sending him home, and leaving him £40 lighter in the pocket dept.

 

[Foxholer]

You've obviously got your centres wrong.
The upper centre stays above the ball, the lower upper centre is the one that moves forward of centre and the lower centre also stays level with the ball and overall central.
Any questions?

Yes. What does 'Looks a bit like S&T to me so I'm out' REALLY mean?

 

[JustOne]

Yes. What does 'Looks a bit like S&T to me so I'm out' REALLY mean?

Definition: {looks like stack and tilt so I'm out} - Sentence - To lie through your teeth that you are not interested and will stay away (see also: bullsh*t,... liar liar pants on fire,... and Don't worry love, this won't hurt much!!.
Common variations of this sentence include "Looks like stack and tilt, I'm off to do cooking" and "I've had enough of this but you need a centered swing and to be tilted towards the ball".

 

[chrisd]

You've obviously got your centres wrong.
The upper centre stays above the ball, the lower upper centre is the one that moves forward of centre and the lower centre also stays level with the ball and overall central.
Any questions?

How do you re-screw a hip back in?

 

[bobmac]

Yes. What does 'Looks a bit like S&T to me so I'm out' REALLY mean?

It meant that I saw parts of his swing that suggested to me he was trying to implement S&T.
I'm not authorised to teach S&T so said I was out.
4 mins later in the very next post, Alex said

I have had no S&T coaching or conversations or watched any videos... I AM INOCENT BOSS!!!

By that I assumed he wasnt trying S&T.
Then he asked

I would value your opinion Bob, what makes it look like S&T?

So I replied.

Has it come to the stage where I have to justify everything I say when I try and help people?
If so, I really am out of here

 

[JustOne]

Has it come to the stage where I have to justify everything I say when I try and help people?

Try being me!

(I'm used to it now though and mostly laugh out loud. This thread alone contains at least 10 p*ss takes and I reckon it's not done yet )

 

[chrisd]

Try being me!

(I'm used to it now though and mostly laugh out loud. This thread alone contains at least 10 p*ss takes and I reckon it's not done yet )

Where's Mark Clattenberg when you need a referee!

 

[JustOne]

Don't want Bob getting upset....

I like the cantankerous ol' git and don't mind his continual argumentativeness

 

[Foxholer]

It meant that I saw parts of his swing that suggested to me he was trying to implement S&T.
I'm not authorised to teach S&T so said I was out.
4 mins later in the very next post, Alex said



By that I assumed he wasnt trying S&T.
Then he asked



So I replied.

Has it come to the stage where I have to justify everything I say when I try and help people?
If so, I really am out of here

Well as far as I can see, THIS thread REALLY IS about S&T.

I think the title even has a hint!

BTW. My personal view - and it's certainly not a professional opinion - is that the S&T swing is very risky approach for relative newcomers to the game. It seems to me that there are too many potentially dangerous moves required, both from actually getting the technique wrong and from causing damage to the body!

 

[JustOne]

..and from causing damage to the body!

Justify that comment.

 

[chrisd]

I'm watching the golf from the USA and they have just said that Charlie Wi is using S & T

 

[SocketRocket]

Try being me!

(I'm used to it now though and mostly laugh out loud. This thread alone contains at least 10 p*ss takes and I reckon it's not done yet )

James, I dont happen to agree with David Ike that you are one of the reptillian people. Actually I dont even know if David Ike thinks you are one. I think Ed Milliband and Lembit Opik are though.

 

[Foxholer]

Justify that comment.

Here's a link to an article from someone I consider as independent/unbiased as it can get. http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/stackandtilt.htm

There are other references available, but they tend to be from 'competing' strategies, so I consider them 'biased'.

And that link relates to a skilled exponent. The 'causing damage' is more likely to happen with we hackers! I am certainly aware that repeatedly belting the ground at 80mph or more can do damage if the wrong equipment is used, or the body is not properly aligned/braced etc.

 

[JustOne]

Yeh, I've read that before Foxy and really like the way the guy writes.

When it comes to what you say "causing damage to the body" he goes on to write..

There is no doubt in my mind that the S&T swing can work well from a geometrical/mechanical perspective, but I believe that the required biomechanical movements occurring at the level of the lumbar spine are not natural, and I believe that they are likely to predispose to chronic back problems over the long-term (40-60 year time period).

So that's a 40-60yr time period he said, agreed?
Now I wonder how many people have ALREADY hurt their back playing golf using a TRADITIONAL type swing that haven't yet played golf for 40yrs?

I have heard figures along the lines of there are 10 million golfers in the world of which 6 million ALREADY have bad backs - how true that figure is I don't know.... and I can't find it at the moment to verify... but there surely ARE a lot of golfers who already suffer with a bad back and let's face it, I bet they're not stack and tilt players.

I'm not going to waffle on but I find your argument (or point of view) particularly weak and unfounded. There are TOP back specialists who have conceeded that the S&T swing puts less strain on the back than a conventional style swing (eg: 2 plane swing with an aggressive hip rotation).

 

[virtuocity]

James- thanks again for the advice so far. Best round ever today.

Hit 200 range balls and pulled a heavy bag round a soggy 9 hole track (including a 100 yard dash back down the fairway to collect a headcover that fell out my bag!) and my back feels pretty good. Not looking forward to 60 years down the line though.

 

[Foxholer]

I'm not going to waffle on but I find your argument (or point of view) particularly weak and unfounded. There are TOP back specialists who have conceeded that the S&T swing puts less strain on the back than a conventional style swing (eg: 2 plane swing with an aggressive hip rotation).

Weak perhaps - for experienced golfers, but not newcomers imo - but certainly not unfounded - as the evidence is there! I agree that the entire golf swing can be 'dangerous'.

I agree that an aggressive hip turn is likewise 'un-naturally stressful' - and don't believe Rory McIlroy can sustain his for much longer, It does, however, depend on what the definition of 'aggressive' is!

Strangely, perhaps not so, Golf has actually improved my dodgy back, though other sports related injuries don't help!

 

[G1BB0]

Virtuocity, just found a new blog posting on Daz Hopwoods youtube, quite interesting without being over technical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut43SMsMlBw

(excuse the crappy sound)

 

[virtuocity]

Virtuocity, just found a new blog posting on Daz Hopwoods youtube, quite interesting without being over technical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut43SMsMlBw

(excuse the crappy sound)

Cheers!!! Like his vids. Will have a look when Mrs V shuts the TV off!

 

[virtuocity]

Played well today on the 9 holes. Would have been another personal best if I hadn't ruined my card with a 7 on a par 3.

I'm concentrating on getting the downswing coming down on the inside, which means I can now use my 7 iron (unlike my complaint last week).

Quick question- through impact, should I be thinking about the club continuing down the one path (i.e 2 o'clock from the tee facing the hole) or let it come round in a circle? Sorry if I haven't explained myself well.

Oh- and I got a few draws off my 6 iron, 2 and 5 hybrid! After years of slicing, it's really a gutsy move for me to have the club slightly open at address.

 

[JustOne]

Through impact you should be thinking 'am I into my left side' and the swing path will take care of itself. You shouldn't be making a concious effort to swing 'out' at the ball.

When you set up (the blue arc) the ball is in the middle of your stance... when you have moved into your left side the WHOLE ARC has now moved with you a little to the left (the red arc) and as you can see you will now hit the ball from the inside. [click pic to enlarge...]



(Note: As I said before you have to not let your head/upper body go overly forwards though, 'getting into your left' side doesn't mean getting your upper body ahead of the ball, it means getting your thighs, butt and gut to go left ).