Tour school two stroke penalty...ouch.

[Sweep]

Surely you walk on a path that’s near your line and near were you intend to land, taking the care you do on a putting green.
Never seen a pro actually stand on a spot they hope to land on, near it? Yes, on it? No.

That’s not what I am talking about. I think most accept that if you are chipping or pitching on to the green you don’t go on or near that line. I am taking about a shot of say 165yds. You walk ahead to asses the shot, see if the green is clear, maybe to the top of a hill. You walk maybe 15 yards of the 165. Nowhere near where the ball is going to land.
By walking forward on what could be perceived to be your line, even though you are clearly going the airborne route, have you stepped on your line?
If you have, have you ever heard of anyone being penalised? If you have, be prepared for some very strong arguments in clubhouses across the world when players are penalised for it.
Going by this case alone, I would say you have.

 

[Sweep]

Exactly, so no one could state you purposely walked on your line.

The rule doesn’t state you have to do it on purpose to break the rule.

 

[robinthehood]

That’s not what I am talking about. I think most accept that if you are chipping or pitching on to the green you don’t go on or near that line. I am taking about a shot of say 165yds. You walk ahead to asses the shot, see if the green is clear, maybe to the top of a hill. You walk maybe 15 yards of the 165. Nowhere near where the ball is going to land.
By walking forward on what could be perceived to be your line, even though you are clearly going the airborne route, have you stepped on your line?
If you have, have you ever heard of anyone being penalised? If you have, be prepared for some very strong arguments in clubhouses across the world when players are penalised for it.
Going by this case alone, I would say you have.

To be fair your just doing your best to come up with a situation that doesn't exist. To suit your view point.

 

[Sweep]

How do you apply it in a "fair" way

I suggest you read the thread. A few suggestions have been made.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That’s not what I am talking about. I think most accept that if you are chipping or pitching on to the green you don’t go on or near that line. I am taking about a shot of say 165yds. You walk ahead to asses the shot, see if the green is clear, maybe to the top of a hill. You walk maybe 15 yards of the 165. Nowhere near where the ball is going to land.
By walking forward on what could be perceived to be your line, even though you are clearly going the airborne route, have you stepped on your line?
If you have, have you ever heard of anyone being penalised? If you have, be prepared for some very strong arguments in clubhouses across the world when players are penalised for it.
Going by this case alone, I would say you have.

I’ve never seen anyone stand in front of the ball and walk forward, whether that be 5yds or 150yds, I’ve seen them walk from the side, I’d also say there is a difference between walking forward to take a look and deliberately pacing out a distance.

As for the deliberate post, I agree the rule doesn’t state that, but deliberately avoiding walking on your line is a lot easier to prove than walking close to it and raising questions.

 

[Sweep]

To be fair your just doing your best to come up with a situation that doesn't exist. To suit your view point.

How so? It’s the application of the rule in this case that has raised questions on scenarios where any one of us could fall foul of this rule if it is not applied with common sense. Some argue common sense was lacking in this case. Have you never seen anyone walk ahead of their ball to asses their next shot? If so, how does this situation not exist?

 

[robinthehood]

How so? It’s the application of the rule in this case that has raised questions on scenarios where any one of us could fall foul of this rule if it is not applied with common sense. Some argue common sense was lacking in this case. Have you never seen anyone walk ahead of their ball to asses their next shot? If so, how does this situation not exist?

Yes I do it often. But not along my line .

 

[garyinderry]

People do it all the time. They cross their target line all the time when walking around a corner of a dog leg to see where they want to hit it etc.

They don't alter their lie when they do this. their lie for all intents and purposes is exactly the same. walk around the corner through a bunker then rake it, it then has been altered.

 

[Sweep]

I’ve never seen anyone stand in front of the ball and walk forward, whether that be 5yds or 150yds, I’ve seen them walk from the side, I’d also say there is a difference between walking forward to take a look and deliberately pacing out a distance.

As for the deliberate post, I agree the rule doesn’t state that, but deliberately avoiding walking on your line is a lot easier to prove than walking close to it and raising questions.

Really?
Even so, the definition of “your line” is subjective:-
The "line of play" is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction.

What you deem reasonable may not be what someone else deems reasonable and vice versa.

Are we to accept then, that as a shot with a 7 iron is more liable to s wider dispersion than a shot with a putter, the reasonable distance on either side of the line becomes greater?

This case raises these questions because the bunker was deemed to be on his line even though he played to go over it and indeed did so. Surely it would be better to apply the penalty for airborne shots if they are duffed and the ball strikes where the line was touched?

 

[Sweep]

Yes I do it often. But not along my line .

How wide a margin do you give?

 

[Sweep]

People do it all the time. They cross their target line all the time when walking around a corner of a dog leg to see where they want to hit it etc.

They don't alter their lie when they do this. their lie for all intents and purposes is exactly the same. walk around the corner through a bunker then rake it, it then has been altered.

True. And we all know that is correct. But that’s not what the rule says.
I appreciate I am being pedantic but it was the rules officials in this case being pedantic that raised this issue.

 

[robinthehood]

How wide a margin do you give?

Can't say I measure it. What I can say is I know about the rules and am careful not make stupid mistakes. That said I still do from time to time. I get why you think this isn't fair but on the same token is it fair I got a drop from a crap lie back on to the fairway because a fully grown tree still had a stake on the trunk ?

 

[Sweep]

Can't say I measure it. What I can say is I know about the rules and am careful not make stupid mistakes. That said I still do from time to time. I get why you think this isn't fair but on the same token is it fair I got a drop from a crap lie back on to the fairway because a fully grown tree still had a stake on the trunk ?

I agree. But it’s not a good defence of a rule to say it’s not the only bad one.

 

[robinthehood]

It's not a bad rule. If he'd dumped his ball in that bunker what then ? Was it still unfair

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Really?
Even so, the definition of “your line” is subjective:-
The "line of play" is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction.

What you deem reasonable may not be what someone else deems reasonable and vice versa.

Are we to accept then, that as a shot with a 7 iron is more liable to s wider dispersion than a shot with a putter, the reasonable distance on either side of the line becomes greater?

This case raises these questions because the bunker was deemed to be on his line even though he played to go over it and indeed did so. Surely it would be better to apply the penalty for airborne shots if they are duffed and the ball strikes where the line was touched?

Is it subjective? I always believed it’s a straight line between your ball and the flag, the fact the ball may bend or curve in the air is immaterial, nobody measures a shot with the flight of the ball built in.

 

[Sweep]

To be clear, I understand and accept the rule. People should not step on their line or alter it.
For me, this player was penalised because he raked the bunker, thereby creating or removing an irregularity of surface. The alternative that he was penalised for stepping on his line when playing this kind of shot opens up a whole can of worms as I have tried to demonstrate.
Nevertheless, the officials should have been clear as to how he had breached the rule and the rule needs to be better worded.
I think most would agree that it’s not good when players are penalised for something that did not give them an advantage and / or was not done intentionally and our game suffers from when this occurs.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Can safely say, I have never thought about walking forward on my line (apart from when on the green, but I don't do it due to this rule), when looking at where to land balls near the green and such like (wouldn't walk though a bunker, as don't wish to rerake it, but have raked bunkers whilst waiting to take my shots so I assume I have fallen foul of this rule without realising).

Just makes me wonder how many other rules I have broken without realising, golf is mental with some of the 'silly' rules that exist. Glad I normally play social play in the main, as can not be bothered to know the rule book inside and out .

 

[Sweep]

It's not a bad rule. If he'd dumped his ball in that bunker what then ? Was it still unfair

No. But he didn’t.

 

[Sweep]

Is it subjective? I always believed it’s a straight line between your ball and the flag, the fact the ball may bend or curve in the air is immaterial, nobody measures a shot with the flight of the ball built in.

You might be right. What do you condider a reasonable distance?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You might be right. What do you condider a reasonable distance?

1yd either side, the fact the ball may fade, draw, stay straight, the line is still straight.

Just read all the articles I could find on this and it seems he believes he was given the penalty for raking the bunker.

It would be interesting if we could find the official reason as that impacts on the discussion about walking on the line.