Teeing Area Questions

[jim8flog]

Perhaps the greenkeeper could move the teeing area a yard or so forward or back more frequently. I have seen many these 'old' boxes with little width, where the greenkeepers move the TA infrequently 10 yards, resulting in very intensively worn areas.

We have a limited number of green staff and there is a set weekly/ daily routine for jobs. The tee markers do get moved quite regularly but sometimes to avoid the wear the +/- 10 yards does not always get adhered to ( I understand this is acceptable though where it is done for protection of the course) bearing in mind that we have over 800 members with a very high level of number of rounds played.

Where we have winter tees they are exceedingly worn as they were put in when we had less than half that number of members but the new course manager now uses 2x2 metre mats on the main tees which do get moved more frequently to avoid killing the grass.

 

[rulie]

We have a limited number of green staff and there is a set weekly/ daily routine for jobs. The tee markers do get moved quite regularly but sometimes to avoid the wear the +/- 10 yards does not always get adhered to ( I understand this is acceptable though where it is done for protection of the course) bearing in mind that we have over 800 members with a very high level of number of rounds played.

Where we have winter tees they are exceedingly worn as they were put in when we had less than half that number of members but the new course manager now uses 2x2 metre mats on the main tees which do get moved more frequently to avoid killing the grass.

I find that the most damaged tees on our course are on the par three holes, and wish that our green staff would reduce the width of the teeing area (to maybe 4 or 5 paces max) such that both sides of the tee box would be used, instead of just the centre 6 or 7 paces.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Always? So why did they bother building the tee box that is never used?

Just a few times for comps held in the last few weeks to compensate for temp loss of distance on our 14th due to work on the hole.

Plus As others have noted for older traditions courses, many of our tee grounds are long and narrow, and don’t give the green keepers much scope for positioning the tee markers to avoid excessive wear. One of our next major projects is, where possible, to widen narrow tee grounds.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Some of teeing grounds have been built, or have been extended, with complete disregard to HNSP tsk

For @Bratty (from the Where Do You Play thread)

HNSP…Historic Natural/Normal* Standing Position.

*can’t remember which but either works.

 

[Slab]

I sometime think we have too many prepared teeing areas
But with 5 sets of tees it's hard to argue that point
Although it seems like it's only the comp tees that are moved with regularity while others remain pretty static

Comp tees can often be 30-50 meters from the plates (behind) on half the holes

 

[Alan Clifford]

I sometime think we have too many prepared teeing areas
But with 5 sets of tees it's hard to argue that point
Although it seems like it's only the comp tees that are moved with regularity while others remain pretty static

Comp tees can often be 30-50 meters from the plates (behind) on half the holes

I have it in my head that there is a 10 yard/metre limit but I'm probably wrong.

 

[Slab]

I have it in my head that there is a 10 yard/metre limit but I'm probably wrong.

There is but its a 'should be' rather than a 'must be'

 

[wjemather]

There is but its a 'should be' rather than a 'must be'

Even though it's a 'should' in the rules, 30-50 metres goes well beyond being within reasonable proximity of the measured yardage. Sounds like the "comp tees" should have their own ratings.

 

[Steven Rules]

I have it in my head that there is a 10 yard/metre limit but I'm probably wrong.

Already answered in post #18. We have gone full circle.

 

[tadabq]

The tee markers defining the front limit of the teeing area are set at the ‘stones’ at the very back of the teeing ground/box.

1) Must they be set such that the player is provided with a 2 club length rectangle of prepared surface and that area must be within the evident or defined bounds of the teeing ground/box (I think the answer is No, but asking for confirmation)

2) If the answer to 1) is No, then can the player tee his ball up off the prepared area or indeed off the defined or evident teeing ground/box as long as it is teed up in a rectangle formed two club lengths back from the tee markers? I assume the player is allowed to take his stance outside of the prepared area or indeed off the defined or evident teeing ground/box as long as his ball is teed up within the rules.

In researching the above I also came across something that seems curious…

Rule 6.2b(6) states…(my italics)

When Ball in Play Lies in Teeing Area. If the player’s ball in play is in the teeing area after a stroke (such as a teed ball after a stroke that missed the ball) or after taking relief, the player may:​

• Lift or move the ball without penalty (see Rule 9.4b, Exception 1), and
• Play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area from a tee or the ground under (2), including playing the ball as it lies

Does the second bullet point apply if I am playing a hole and hit my ball into the teeing area of another hole. The only thing that would make it not apply is that it says ‘If the player‘s ball in play is in the teeing area…’ As it does not say ‘in a teeing area…’ this suggests the rule only applies to the hole being played. I note the (2) referred to is simply defining the ground in this context and what can be used to tee the ball up.

Yes I know this is mega pedantic about one very small word, but I have come to understand that we must read and interpret the words of rules exactly as they are written.

"The" teeing area is important. It is the teeing are of the hole being played. All other "teeing areas" on the course are part of the General Area. See Definition "Teeing Area"
Note also that "the putting green" is the putting green of the hole being played. All other putting greens are part of the General Area (and also wrong putting greens).
Tee markers "should" be set to allow 2 club lengths behind them but there is no requirement. IF the Committee places tee markers at the very back of teeing ground
the player must tee off from the teeing area (2 club length rectangle) including prepared surface (teeing ground) or unprepared surface.

 

[rulefan]

I sometime think we have too many prepared teeing areas
But with 5 sets of tees it's hard to argue that point
Although it seems like it's only the comp tees that are moved with regularity while others remain pretty static

Comp tees can often be 30-50 meters from the plates (behind) on half the holes

If the cumulative effect exceeds 100 yards Appendix G applies and the CR and Slope should be adjusted.

 

[Slab]

If the cumulative effect exceeds 100 yards Appendix G applies and the CR and Slope should be adjusted.

thanks although I've never worked it out across all 18 (& never likely to)...
I just know that direct into a 3-4 club wind when they move the Par 5 SI 1 markers back 35 yards from plates then adjusting the CR/slope won't help my ball carry to fairway, 2nd shot at best is now on a severe upslope or lush rough instead of level ground, zero chance of reaching for a GIR and I'll typically be 2 shots worse off just on that one hole

 

[Alan Clifford]

If the cumulative effect exceeds 100 yards Appendix G applies and the CR and Slope should be adjusted.

I have it in my head that individual tees cannot be more than 10 metres from the marker marking the measured length. But I may be wrong on this.

 

[D-S]

I have it in my head that individual tees cannot be more than 10 metres from the marker marking the measured length. But I may be wrong on this.

Should not, not must not. Interpreted locally as ok if just a one off Greenkeeper mistake or due to circumstances outside a course’s control such as a sprinkler leak or a tree down over a particular platform - not a regular occurrence in order to rest a tee or due to the positioning of a winter mat.

 

[rulefan]

Just to confirm when a Course Rating is done -
1) There must be at least 4 yards (metres) clear space on the tee pad behind the permanent markers.
2) There must be at least 2 yards (metres) clear space on the tee pad in front of the permanent markers.

The distance from the permanent marker to the centre of the green is used as the length of the hole (allowing for doglegs).

 

[rulie]

Just to confirm when a Course Rating is done -
1) There must be at least 4 yards (metres) clear space on the tee pad behind the permanent markers.
2) There must be at least 2 yards (metres) clear space on the tee pad in front of the permanent markers.

And what happens if those "musts" are not met?

 

[D-S]

And what happens if those "musts" are not met?

Then either the course needs to be officially remeasured or the ratings teams will take their measurements from the a point that fits these criteria.

 

[rulefan]

Then either the course needs to be officially remeasured or the ratings teams will take their measurements from the a point that fits these criteria.

In addition, the rating team will tell the club and annotate their rating advising the national authority (eg EG) of the issue(s). The national authority may well require the permanent markers to be moved.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In addition, the rating team will tell the club and annotate their rating advising the national authority (eg EG) of the issue(s). The national authority may well require the permanent markers to be moved.

I understand your response but thought that every 10 years the course had to be measured and a certificate issued for it to be acceptable to play rounds suitable for handicap. This is independent to the WHS assessment and is normally done by a private contractor.

With modern GPS capabilities this often doesn't involve a physical visit unless something has changed.

Be interesting to see if the authorities are going to enforce some of the issues highlighted in this thread which are fairly widespread.

 

[wjemather]

I understand your response but thought that every 10 years the course had to be measured and a certificate issued for it to be acceptable to play rounds suitable for handicap. This is independent to the WHS assessment and is normally done by a private contractor.

With modern GPS capabilities this often doesn't involve a physical visit unless something has changed.

Be interesting to see if the authorities are going to enforce some of the issues highlighted in this thread which are fairly widespread.

Measurement certification has to be done on-site as it's the only way to accurately determine the position of permanent distance markers, their relative position to the back of the tee box, lines of play, centres of greens, etc.