Tour school two stroke penalty...ouch.

[GreiginFife]

There is some merit in your ideas but if you go down that road are you then going to bring in different equipment at some point.

Why would that be necessary? The equipment isn't open to interpretation. They pass or fail compliance testing and its black and white. No split needed.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Or just don’t go in the bunker on your line or if you decide you will go through the bunker, pace it to the side, away from your line, ensuring there is no issue, the rule as we have all learnt (whether we agree with it or not) is quite straightforward, why does it need a tweek?

I agree he shouldn't have paced through the bunker because he was slowing the course down unnecessarily. However, once done tweak it because it's daft, it's illogical. Tweak it to make sense. He was penalised for improving a lie that never happened. That's daft. Penalise him if it does happen, that makes sense.

 

[drdel]

There is some merit in your ideas but if you go down that road are you then going to bring in different equipment at some point.

Just for fun...

Suppose that a player walks forward to review his line of sight and accidently trips and takes a few steps in the bunker (penalty area under the new rules) to regain his balance. He then rakes the bunker to correct his footprint damage and re-instates its original condition. He then returns and plays his shot over the said line of play (above his newly raked and improved line of play).

 

[Rlburnside]

Out of interest, for all those saying no one can ever ignore any rule breaking, do you immediately call a 2 stroke penalty when someone says "take your time"? I know if I did I'd be very short of people willing to play with me again.

Back to this case; would it be so bad with a change in the rule to say "...and advantage is gained". If you rake a bunker and then land in it - penalty. If you stamp down rough and then land in it - penalty. If you clear it 30 yards in the air, then just move on!

It can be very hard to call someone for a minor offence ,most people I have played with don't really know it's a penalty for telling someone" to take your time" A old boy I play with when we have preferred lies will sometimes tap his ball back to his feet with his club and then place the ball ( due to age and bending difficulties) Now I know this is wrong and he shouldn't do it but I wouldn't say anything because a) it doesn't affect anyone else b) he gains no advantage c) as a friend he could take offence.

Where do you draw the line ? You could become very unpopular if you call players out for ,let's say very minor things.

OP. Strange thing to do pacing through a bunker anyway

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree he shouldn't have paced through the bunker because he was slowing the course down unnecessarily. However, once done tweak it because it's daft, it's illogical. Tweak it to make sense. He was penalised for improving a lie that never happened. That's daft. Penalise him if it does happen, that makes sense.

He’s quite entitled to pace out through the bunker (not on his line), no different to pacing out somewere else on the course, who said it was slowing the game down? He’s playing for his future and being diligent, his error is walking on his line then raking it.
I could claim (obviously I’m making it up) he knew the rule and saw something in the bunker that he knew if he fluffed his shot would of caused him problems.

 

[robinthehood]

My goodness for an easy to understand ruling some of you are tieing yourselves in knots .!!

 

[williamalex1]

I think the confusion maybe in wording in the Etiquette section under Care of the course where it states " before leaving a bunker, players should carefully fill up and smooth over all holes and footprints made by them and any nearby made by others ". No mention of a stroke being made . BTW I only have a 2016 rule book at hand ATM

 

[Roops]

So, I have read the rule again and still waiting for a reasonable response to my genuine question.
The rule says I must not improve my line of play by - among other things - pressing down loose soil.
I am about to hit into a green 165yds away. I walk ahead of my ball on a line to the green to check the green is clear. I take a 7 iron and hit the ball, airborne all the way on to the green.
Can anyone be sure I have not pressed down loose soil in my action of walking ahead of my ball on a line to the green and therefore have I improved my line of play?

I was thinking exactly the same, chipping from fairway to green would be another example, you may well walk the line before you play the shot, the action of walking it could press down imperfections etc. thereby improving your line.

 

[robinthehood]

I was thinking exactly the same, chipping from fairway to green would be another example, you may well walk the line before you play the shot, the action of walking it could press down imperfections etc. thereby improving your line.

This is the problem with rules threads. They end up with posters making up ever more daft scenarios to try and prove a point

 

[howbow88]

This is the problem with rules threads. They end up with posters making up ever more daft scenarios to try and prove a point

How is that a daft scenario? It’s common enough.

 

[robinthehood]

It's not common . If I saw someone walk the line of a chip I'd expect they were probably cheating

 

[howbow88]

So your answer is that it does break the rule? That’s exactly what the question was. Seeing as a lot of golfers never knew about this rule, it’s interesting to find out.

Would you call someone out on it if you saw this?

 

[robinthehood]

I havnt seen any one do it . I do see people walk along side rhier line which is Ok.. And no I don't call any one for anything as it's not worth the hassle.

 

[howbow88]

I havnt seen any one do it . I do see people walk along side rhier line which is Ok.. And no I don't call any one for anything as it's not worth the hassle.

I don’t know if I have or I haven’t seen it, but there’s no way at all that if I did I would think anyone was cheating. But then I didn’t even know about this rule

 

[robinthehood]

It's a very basic rule... how can you not know it? Probably one of the fundamental rules of golf. Otherwise we'd all carry a variety of tools for improving things as we go...

 

[howbow88]

No need to be condescending It’s the element of what improves a line and the depths to which it goes that myself, and several on here apparently don’t understand.

I played the other day with a bloke who walked all over his line when putting. I said to him half way round ‘dont you worry about your foot marks?’ and he laughed and said ‘I’m not good enough to care about that.’ But from what you’re saying, he is improving his lie? He’s clearly not, but I can’t help but think now that he’s breaking this rule?

And the very example that this thread started with is another interesting one. He’s not actually improved the bunker as such, but restored it to how it originally was - that of course is a bit of a debate on here.

I know of course that if you were to trample over some high rough that is right in front of your ball, that’s clearly a breach but where does it end? Standing on fairway in the manner which was originally asked by Sweep, to see over a fairway slope for example - you walk up to the top of the hill and you’re bang in line with your ball and the flag. Is this breaking the rule?

To say that it is a very basic rule... No. Not to the depths that we’r talking about on here.

 

[garyinderry]

No one has answered my question yet.


When was the rule actually broken?


The second he disturbed the sand on his intended line or the mintute he started raking to repair damage he did to his intended line?

 

[Orikoru]

Beedee has pretty much answered this for me but I'll go again because I think it's a good point . If the player duffs his ball into the bunker that he has just raked then apply the penalty. If he clears the bunker then no penalty applies as no advantage has occurred. That seems logical to me.

A slight tweak to the rule so that no one gains from improving a lie but equally no one is penalised when a lie has not been altered, which it was not in this instance.

Exactly. This is what the rule should be. If you rake a bunker before going in it, you've gained an advantage. If you rake a bunker because you think you're doing the decent thing for other golfers, then chip harmlessly over it and onto the green, you haven't gained an advantage, so no penalty. This is clear, and fair as it would apply equally to all players, and there is no grey area. And best of all - it is sensible.

I also agree that he had no business walking through the bunker in the first place, no idea why he felt the need to do that. I thought they had caddies giving them yardages and so on. But that's a separate point really.

 

[Orikoru]

No one has answered my question yet.


When was the rule actually broken?


The second he disturbed the sand on his intended line or the mintute he started raking to repair damage he did to his intended line?

From what I've read, walking through the bunker wasn't an issue, it was the fact he then raked it before playing his shot.

 

[patricks148]

what if the caddie and walked though the bunker and then raked it, what would have been the ruling then?