Course layout, course marking - can there ever be...

[LIG]

I've been looking at the local rules at my course and a curious situation has apparently arisen.
Our local rules say:

"Out of bounds Rule 18.2
Perimeter of the golf course, (Right of 10, 11,12, 16, 17 and 18)
Over any white stakes or over fence or ditch on the boundary of the course."


Holes 16 - 18 are on the edge of the course and have significant contouring of fairways and rough on the RHS of those holes as to throw balls further to the right. At ALL points, from the 16th tee to the 18th green there are red stakes on the RHS before any ditch can be reached. By my understanding, this means that the reference to OOB for 16 - 18 within the LRs is irrelevant as any ball which rolls or flies so far right as to end up off the course altogether can still be dropped at the appropriate spot taking the point of entry into the red PA into account, for a one stroke penalty. There's no need to "reload" off the tee.
Question: Is that correct? ?

 

[rulie]

I've been looking at the local rules at my course and a curious situation has apparently arisen.
Our local rules say:

"Out of bounds Rule 18.2
Perimeter of the golf course, (Right of 10, 11,12, 16, 17 and 18)
Over any white stakes or over fence or ditch on the boundary of the course."


Holes 16 - 18 are on the edge of the course and have significant contouring of fairways and rough on the RHS of those holes as to throw balls further to the right. At ALL points, from the 16th tee to the 18th green there are red stakes on the RHS before any ditch can be reached. By my understanding, this means that the reference to OOB for 16 - 18 within the LRs is irrelevant as any ball which rolls or flies so far right as to end up off the course altogether can still be dropped at the appropriate spot taking the point of entry into the red PA into account, for a one stroke penalty. There's no need to "reload" off the tee.
Question: Is that correct? ?

Not normally - it's usual that the LR says the penalty area extends to and coincides with the out of bounds line, ie, not to infinity.

 

[LIG]

Not normally - it's usual that the LR says the penalty area extends to and coincides with the out of bounds line, ie, not to infinity.

Our LRs don't say anything about the extent of any such penalty area.
So, based on your initial words, I can see a significant area of doubt with regard to the end position of the ball. There's obviously, little doubt that a ball which runs into the PA will end in the ditch as there are numerous trees and bushes lining the boundary which will prevent it going OOB (onto the lane). Equally, a high slice which flies over the tops of the trees will certainly be OOB.

But what about every other scenario? For example; Ball lands inbounds (whether inside the PA or not) but the slope diverts it to the right, at speed and/or at a height where an element of doubt exists as to where it would come to rest. Who decides?

 

[rulie]

Our LRs don't say anything about the extent of any such penalty area.
So, based on your initial words, I can see a significant area of doubt with regard to the end position of the ball. There's obviously, little doubt that a ball which runs into the PA will end in the ditch as there are numerous trees and bushes lining the boundary which will prevent it going OOB (onto the lane). Equally, a high slice which flies over the tops of the trees will certainly be OOB.

But what about every other scenario? For example; Ball lands inbounds (whether inside the PA or not) but the slope diverts it to the right, at speed and/or at a height where an element of doubt exists as to where it would come to rest. Who decides?

The facts decide. In order to proceed under the penalty area Rules, it must be known (100% probability) or virtually certain (95% probability) that the ball in actually in the penalty area. If those criteria are not met, then it's stroke and distance.

 

[LIG]

The facts decide. In order to proceed under the penalty area Rules, it must be known (100% probability) or virtually certain (95% probability) that the ball in actually in the penalty area. If those criteria are not met, then it's stroke and distance.

In my opinion, the density of the bushes and trees on the boundary means that it's virtually impossible for a ball that doesn't carry directly over the trees to end up "over" the boundary ditch. So I think that unless that high slice/fade happens (seen plenty of these), or a ball clearly bounces high enough to carry over the trees (not seen that yet) its K&VC in the PA.

A few months ago, I went down the lane on the boundary, right of the 18th, and saw just one ball there! I did manage to see about 50 in the ditch. Just wish I'd brought my ball retriever!