Golf rules we let people break - what is one you know of?

[Imurg]

I thought that's what noticeboards were for .

Same meat, different gravy

 

[doublebogey7]

I went back through my emails, see below:

Fairways - mark, pick up, clean and place inside of 6” no nearer the hole

Any other part of the course- mark, pick up, clean and drop inside of 1 club length no nearer the hole


In my head, that's what I meant

So you get to lift clean and drop if your ball is in a bunker or PA. Further you can also move your ball from a bunker and a PA to the GA if within a club length. Good to hear they made the rule clear and simple

 

[doublebogey7]

I assumed this was the practice every golf club takes during the winter months.

Very confusing if other clubs / members are using different local rules.

Honestly thought it was one rule for everyone

Thats looks like a combination of MLRs E3 & E2 to me so would be allowable. As others are saying not evewrywhere sticks to these and some make it very confusing.

 

[Orikoru]

Rules I think some / many golfers are more likely to ignore (most probably already mentioned)

• Allowing a golfer to take a drop when there is a good chance the ball could be lost outside a penalty area

That's a good one I've not seen mentioned yet. The old "I can't see it anywhere so it must have gone in the lake". Although I still think 'virtually certain' is a bit of a wishy washy phrase to have in a rulebook and creates a bit of a grey area.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So you get to lift clean and drop if your ball is in a bunker or PA. Further you can also move your ball from a bunker and a PA to the GA if within a club length. Good to hear they made the rule clear and simple

Bunkers are all gur at the moment, and will likely stay that way for the rest of the winter so that doesn't come into it. We have bunker issues

I'm not devious enough to have thought about dropping onto the fairway if within a clubs length. Go in the rough, stay in the rough. I'll have to mention that

 

[PaulMdj]

Bunkers are all gur at the moment, and will likely stay that way for the rest of the winter so that doesn't come into it. We have bunker issues

I'm not devious enough to have thought about dropping onto the fairway if within a clubs length. Go in the rough, stay in the rough. I'll have to mention that

No issue if you drop in the rough and it rolls onto the fairway, so no issue if you are within a Club length of the fairway either.

 

[need_my_wedge]

I would disagree

It is slow players /player not keeping up with the group/not letting players through in front that causes bunching

I agree with

Eesat 90210 's analysis in post #48​

As I said above, with all the will in the world, you can’t avoid slow players, there are too many variables. Therefore just following as soon as it’s clear does not help, it will only cause more delays on the course.

A good way to visualise it is if you imagine a car and a lorry driving a 200 mile journey, both averaging 50 mph. However the car averages 50 mph by randomly driving at 30mph for half the time and 70mph the other half, the lorry is limited to 50mph and does that for the whole journey.
If they travel alone both vehicles complete the 200 mile journey in 4 hours, however if the lorry starts it's journey close behind the car it will have to slow down below 50 at some points and won't catch up when the car does 70, and there is a similar effect when the car starts behind as it will lose time when doing 30 and never have a chance to do 70 to make it back up.

Replace lorrys and cars with groups of golfers and 200 mile roads with golf courses, you get the same effect.

In a perfect world where everyone plays at exactly the same constant speed for the whole round tee time spacing makes no difference, but unfortunately the real world doesn't behave like this. Additionally human perception means that even if 2 rounds take the same total amount of time, one where you have to wait to hit shots will feel slower.

I very nearly used this same analogy because it really does reflect play on a good course, and it hasn’t even taken into account old bangers breaking down, or running out of go go juice, or getting a puncture in the middle lane, losing a wheel, fog, high winds etc. many of which happen each and every day, more than once.

In an ideal world, IF everyone stayed in position, following immediately it’s clear might not effect the pace of play, but I’ve yet to see that work for a whole day. It just isn’t conducive to keeping the course moving.

 

[doublebogey7]

Bunkers are all gur at the moment, and will likely stay that way for the rest of the winter so that doesn't come into it. We have bunker issues

I'm not devious enough to have thought about dropping onto the fairway if within a clubs length. Go in the rough, stay in the rough. I'll have to mention that

Penalty Area's??

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Penalty Area's??

Ash, I wasn't sure what PA meant

 

[rulefan]

Ash, I wasn't sure what PA meant

PA means Penalty Area (plural Penalty Areas).

 

[Petercool]

Are we talking real golf or friendly golf? During real golf, nobody knowingly breaks any. During friendly golf, anyone can do what they want, which is often my response to "can I? (enter oft repeated query)", "do what you want", is often the response.

Real golf. Comp.

 

[Petercool]

I see no rule infringment there, please can you quote me the rule number.

Yeah it’s commOn knowledge the distance to a pin.
Therefore not against the rules.

 

[Voyager EMH]

That's a good one I've not seen mentioned yet. The old "I can't see it anywhere so it must have gone in the lake". Although I still think 'virtually certain' is a bit of a wishy washy phrase to have in a rulebook and creates a bit of a grey area.

Anyone using that type of wording is adding to the wishy-washy-ness.

"I am more than 95% certain that the ball is in the lake." Then proceed accordingly.

Trouble for me is that I have more than 95% certainty that more than 5% of golfers have insufficient understanding of what 95% certainty actually is.

 

[Swango1980]

Anyone using that type of wording is adding to the wishy-washy-ness.

"I am more than 95% certain that the ball is in the lake." Then proceed accordingly.

Trouble for me is that I have more than 95% certainty that more than 5% of golfers have insufficient understanding of what 95% certainty actually is.

No golfer can accurately determine whether they are 95% certain or 94% certain.

Many golfers may simply be edging towards it being in PA (51%), and if they are even slightly more confident it is in PA, label that as being certain enough to take a drop.

Then, of course, you'll get others who will happily take a drop even if there is a 1% chance it is in PA. They are either oblivious to the rule, or don't care as "they are not playing for a row of houses"

 

[Voyager EMH]

No golfer can accurately determine whether they are 95% certain or 94% certain.

And yet they are required to be so.

"Am I 96% certain or merely 94% certain?"

A golfer is required to be one or the other and proceed accordingly.

"Make your mind up time!" (Hughie Green - 1960s-1970s)

 

[hambugerpete]

I'm honestly not arguing, I just don't get what difference it makes between teeing off exactly 10 minutes after the group in front or when they've cleared the fairway after, let's say 7 minutes.

Obviously I understand everything that you say happens, but bottom line is, it's also perfectly feasible and normal for Group B to be waiting on the 18th fairway when Group A are putting out, so how can anyone say that teeing off 3 minutes early caused a delay?

And what of clubs that don't have a booking system , they seem to do ok.

 

[Orikoru]

No golfer can accurately determine whether they are 95% certain or 94% certain.

Many golfers may simply be edging towards it being in PA (51%), and if they are even slightly more confident it is in PA, label that as being certain enough to take a drop.

Then, of course, you'll get others who will happily take a drop even if there is a 1% chance it is in PA. They are either oblivious to the rule, or don't care as "they are not playing for a row of houses"

Yeah, this was my point about the grey area. 'Virtually certain' is open to interpretation. People will often think "I didn't find it anywhere on land therefore it must be in the lake" and in their mind, that is virtual certainty. But in truth they have no idea. If the rule said you must be 100% certain it's in the lake, then maybe they'd react differently.

However, it is a rule we 'let people break' - because it's easier all round. If you call them on it, you're effectively sending them back to replay their previous shot which means a lot of standing, waiting around and holding up play. Given that it's a penalty drop anyway for going in the hazard, I think most people are happy for someone to proceed that way out of convenience.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yeah, this was my point about the grey area. 'Virtually certain' is open to interpretation. People will often think "I didn't find it anywhere on land therefore it must be in the lake" and in their mind, that is virtual certainty. But in truth they have no idea. If the rule said you must be 100% certain it's in the lake, then maybe they'd react differently.

However, it is a rule we 'let people break' - because it's easier all round. If you call them on it, you're effectively sending them back to replay their previous shot which means a lot of standing, waiting around and holding up play. Given that it's a penalty drop anyway for going in the hazard, I think most people are happy for someone to proceed that way out of convenience.

So how exactly would it change things in your group if they made it 100%.

 

[need_my_wedge]

One that we break regularly in our bounce games is giving a free move if you’re by a tree root (of which we have plenty). Having nearly lost an eye after a ball ricocheted off a root, we see this as a sensible and safe option. It does no harm and if someone gets a couple of inches leeway, who gives a chuff.

Of course I wouldn’t do it in a comp, but then I don’t play in comps anymore.

 

[Orikoru]

So how exactly would it change things in your group if they made it 100%.

If it was 100% you'd pretty much have to see the ball go in the hazard to be 100% sure it's there wouldn't you? It removes the grey area of '95%' when in they are only 60%. But everyone knows what 100% means.