Theresa May - Not up to the Job of PM?

[Doon frae Troon]

If the, you know what hits the fan, May will be the first to go, she has not got the numbers to back her up.

Get a new leader and then follow out the wishes of the majority of the country and leave on our terms, we owe the EU stuff all.

Once we have gone, give the Scottish people a vote on independence, which going by the last poll, they will lose and then hopefully we never have to see that “Fish lady” on our screens again, everyone’s a winner :thup:

Of the massive array of talent available who would you like to see leading the Tory's after they have done the dirty on May.

 

[Foxholer]

And so it seems that May's cunning plan is beginning to work...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-brexit-shut-up_uk_5b39f023e4b08c3a8f6bea58

How could I ever doubt her.

Mind you - given how tired, wan and (frankly) rather haggard she is looking, maybe she has decided to flatten the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg, get some form of soft-Brexit deal - and then get out, and who would blame her.

I'm no fan of Brexit! But Rees-Mogg is correct! Any entity where the final arbiter is the ECJ means that Brexit is almost certainly not 'complete'! Whether that is actually important/essential is a separate issue - there are plenty of other external (non-UK) bodies that are the 'final arbiters' for situations that affect the UK! The European Court of Human Rights - which, it probably needs to be stressed, is not related to/part of the EU - is an obvious example! And, I might add, an extremely honourable, if annoyingly so (or worse) to governments, one!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm no fan of Brexit! But Rees-Mogg is correct! Any entity where the final arbiter is the ECJ means that Brexit is almost certainly not 'complete'! Whether that is actually important/essential is a separate issue - there are plenty of other external (non-UK) bodies that are the 'final arbiters' for situations that affect the UK! The European Court of Human Rights - which, it probably needs to be stressed, is not related to/part of the EU - is an obvious example! And, I might add, an extremely honourable, if annoyingly so (or worse) to governments, one!

He might be correct in his assessment of what remaining under the jurisdiction of the ECJ means in respect of Brexit - but his criticism of the PM has not gone done well with many in the Tory party. He is trying to blackmail the PM - polite words wrapping up the menace. Completely unacceptable some Tory MPs are saying and R-M should shut-up.

 

[Foxholer]

He might be correct in his assessment of what remaining under the jurisdiction of the ECJ means in respect of Brexit - but his criticism of the PM has not gone done well with many in the Tory party. He is trying to blackmail the PM - polite words wrapping up the menace. Completely unacceptable some Tory MPs are saying and R-M should shut-up.

So they are saying he should compromise his (quite reasonable imo) approach for the sake of some sort of 'party unity'! This is where individual members have a duty to be 'true to their beliefs' (or those of their constituents) and continue to challenge any compromise that are a consequence of Cabinet's (or perhaps the PM's) decisions! This, to me, is the 'value' of ordinary MPs! The Party Whip is, imo, not appropriate to this particularly issue! Individual MPs should also declare whether they are voting from their own opinion, or as a reflection of their electorate. They are entitled to do either, but could well suffer at the next election if they don't heed an overwhelming 'electorate' opinion!

 

[Fade and Die]

And so comment in the Sunday papers suggesting that maybe - just maybe - Theresa may has a cunning plan.

Drag things out so long to the point that the timescales for putting a deal in front of the EU ahead of March 29th - with enough time to discuss and agree it - get so compressed that we realise we are very seriously running out of time - and the urgency of getting an agreed position to put to the EU forces the Brexit Fanatics in the cabinet and Westminster (Bone, Cash, Jenkin, Fox, Johnson, Davis, Patel et al) into the open with their (IMO insane) demands. And we see their stance for what it is - self-serving and totally ideological with nary a care for the outcome. They want Brexit over the line no matter what the cost and the impact to their party and on us all - well not on all because these fanatics won't be affected as they are 'all right jack'.

To achieve that they threaten the Prime Minister with all sorts of hellfire and damnation if she comes up with a deal that doesn't fit the demands of their relatively small numbers - they will try and bring her down - no matter the constitutional crisis that that would through up as the Tory Party would be leaderless and whither the PM - and whither the Brexit negotiations.

And all of the above makes it more possible for her to get a proposal to put to the EU agreed on Thursday - and for the Leave voters out in the country to accept the deal as being better than nothing.

I get the sense that May is just going for broke as she appreciates the mess and chaos of the current situation and the damage that No Deal will do to the country. And maybe she hopes that she can sell the proposal to the country - having exposed the fanatics for what they are.

So maybe - just maybe - Theresa May has a cunning plan.

(which would be more - it has to be said - than one Mr Jeremy Corbyn)

I'd have thought it would be blatantly clear? It's obvious to anyone with eyeballs that this Government doesn't actually want Brexit. Theresa May didn't want it, did she? This is a headache that they probably could do without.


All this process is doing is simply upsetting the people that fund their party come election time.


I still believe that this whole thing won't happen. They're going to muck it up royally and then somehow the process will get overturned, and the UK will get slapped back into line.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so - if as a result of today's Denouement Day discussions Johnson and Davis resign, can Theresa May survive?

I believe reports that tell us that she has no intention of resigning whatever.

I very much hope that she has come down on the side of reality, and now realises that the Brexit options for leaving without significant damage to the EU economy are very limited - indeed she may have come to the conclusion that leaving the EU to include leaving the CU and the SM will be terrible.

And so when Mrs May presents the White Paper on her proposed deal what I would dearly love to hear from Mrs May is real honesty - honesty telling the UK electorate WHY the deal being proposed is that which is the best and most pragmatic course.

Hell mend Johnson, Fox, Leadsome, David and that bunch - and I so want to see Cash and Bone exploding with rage.

Then again May might just fold. But I don't think she will. Her Epitaph as PM might well be - In the end she did what she knew was right

 

[ColchesterFC]

I very much hope that she has come down on the side of reality, and now realises that the Brexit options for leaving without significant damage to the EU economy are very limited - indeed she may have come to the conclusion that leaving the EU to include leaving the CU and the SM will be terrible.

And so when Mrs May presents the White Paper on her proposed deal what I would dearly love to hear from Mrs May is real honesty - honesty telling the UK electorate WHY the deal being proposed is that which is the best and most pragmatic course.

Her Epitaph as PM might well be - In the end she did what she knew was right

So what you want from the UK leaving the EU is to stay in the Customs Union and Single Market, which will mean retaining freedom of movement, and to stay under the jurisdiction of the European Courts? Or to put it another way your solution for the UK to leave the EU is for us to remain in the EU?

RE: the bit in bold - what you actually mean is that you want her epitaph to be "She ignored the result of the referendum and kept us in the EU".

 

[drdel]

And so - if as a result of today's Denouement Day discussions Johnson and Davis resign, can Theresa May survive?

I believe reports that tell us that she has no intention of resigning whatever.

I very much hope that she has come down on the side of reality, and now realises that the Brexit options for leaving without significant damage to the EU economy are very limited - indeed she may have come to the conclusion that leaving the EU to include leaving the CU and the SM will be terrible.

And so when Mrs May presents the White Paper on her proposed deal what I would dearly love to hear from Mrs May is real honesty - honesty telling the UK electorate WHY the deal being proposed is that which is the best and most pragmatic course.

Hell mend Johnson, Fox, Leadsome, David and that bunch - and I so want to see Cash and Bone exploding with rage.

Then again May might just fold. But I don't think she will. Her Epitaph as PM might well be - In the end she did what she knew was right

34 pages - yet from page 1 is was very clear that you despise the woman and there is absolutely nothing she can do that you would view as positive.

 

[SocketRocket]

34 pages - yet from page 1 is was very clear that you despise the woman and there is absolutely nothing she can do that you would view as positive.

That's spot on, just like his Brexit views he will criticize everything coming from the UK and praise all from the EU. Even I am not that closed in my view.

 

[MegaSteve]

To be seen on the rear of a fisherman's shack, on Hastings beach, writ large...

THERESA MAY YOU ARE LUCKY WE NO LONGER HANG PEOPLE FOR TREASON!
OUT MEANS OUT...

A sentiment a wholly agree with...

 

[bluewolf]

That's spot on, just like his Brexit views he will criticize everything coming from the UK and praise all from the EU. Even I am not that closed in my view.

Yes you are...

Brexit may just turn out to be the best thing to happen to the UK for several generations. However, due to the incredible difficulty of disentangling ourselves from decades of trade/politics, its possible that we could lose an entire generation to a self imposed recession. That generation would include both my children. You'll have to forgive me if I find the laissez faire attitude of some on here a touch annoying.

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes you are...

Brexit may just turn out to be the best thing to happen to the UK for several generations. However, due to the incredible difficulty of disentangling ourselves from decades of trade/politics, its possible that we could lose an entire generation to a self imposed recession. That generation would include both my children. You'll have to forgive me if I find the laissez faire attitude of some on here a touch annoying.

Well that's it all boxed up and sorted then, lets not change anything in case it has an adverse effect on your kids. have you considered that staying in the EU may have an adverse effect on your kids and us moving away from it may well be the best thing for their future. I am not completely closed in my view to how we leave the EU, I am open to views that can show clearly how certain measures would be advantageous and I can understand how the EU would not want Brexit to damage their economies, I would rather we just move away and let them continue with their plans of closer integration. Maybe you could justify your assertions as being in your opinion just as this is mine :thup:

 

[Mudball]

Speaking to someone in the know... all big details of 'the deal' done between May & EU. Its will stay under wraps with people and politicians & the EU posturing on various things. The idea is to let people think its all going to the wall and then at the last min, TM will come in as shinning armour to save the world. We already saw it this week when suddenly all the ministers are behind a 'compromise deal' and now there are discussions on special rights for EU citizens etc.

Any first deal would have been shot down, so plain old game of selling a dummy and then bringing on the real deal...

<dont shoot the messenger, this could all be locker room talk>>

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Speaking to someone in the know... all big details of 'the deal' done between May & EU. Its will stay under wraps with people and politicians & the EU posturing on various things. The idea is to let people think its all going to the wall and then at the last min, TM will come in as shinning armour to save the world. We already saw it this week when suddenly all the ministers are behind a 'compromise deal' and now there are discussions on special rights for EU citizens etc.

Any first deal would have been shot down, so plain old game of selling a dummy and then bringing on the real deal...

<dont shoot the messenger, this could all be locker room talk>>

This sounds remarkably like Baldrick and one of his cunning plans &#128513;. They worked okay each time didn't they?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So.….It was a case of stand up for your strong political opinions or lose the big salary and ministerial car.
I guess the not so magnificent 7 chose the Nigel Farage option:lol:
What a sorry bunch of chancers they are.

 

[Hobbit]

So.….It was a case of stand up for your strong political opinions or lose the big salary and ministerial car.
I guess the not so magnificent 7 chose the Nigel Farage option:lol:
What a sorry bunch of chancers they are.

Can’t disagree with that.

I wonder if they’re relying on the backbenchers and Labour to vote it down, leaving them squeaky clean and well placed to replace May.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can’t disagree with that.

I wonder if they’re relying on the backbenchers and Labour to vote it down, leaving them squeaky clean and well placed to replace May.

I don't think anyone wants the job right now. Get to next March and then take over. Now it is a poisonous job.

Spineless from a number of ministers. I agree, they are either hoping parliament or the EU will knock it back and they are then not seen as the ones who brought down the gov't.

 

[MegaSteve]

About the only folk that will be remotely satisfied with Fridays outcomes...

Will be the fully paid up members of the Turd Polishers Union...

 

[Hobbit]

I don't think anyone wants the job right now. Get to next March and then take over. Now it is a poisonous job.

Spineless from a number of ministers. I agree, they are either hoping parliament or the EU will knock it back and they are then not seen as the ones who brought down the gov't.

I did wonder if she is a stalking horse for the Tory party, or a sacrificial lamb for the poisoned chalice that is leading the party through Brexit.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I did wonder if she is a stalking horse for the Tory party, or a sacrificial lamb for the poisoned chalice that is leading the party through Brexit.

I'd go with the latter. She walked into the trap with her eyes open but I do think she has made a particularly bad job of her time, poisoned chalice or not.