The SNIP

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spongebob59 said:
Fair play to the snp dude in QT, spoke very well , never seen him before.
didn't seem to know the answer to what the options were if a section 30 ? Wasnt granted, does anyone know ??
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Catalonia basically. The SNP could run another referendum but it would be nothing more than a large opinion poll. It would carry no weight, it would not on its it's own lead to independence. It may lead to a real vote of course if the outcome was decisive.
 
IanM said:
Sure last poll, Independence was in the minority. (Not that the SNP want independence, they want out of UK and into EU!) :)

Last night does show a healthy majority would never Vote Tory, don't like Corbyn (except for one end of Glasgow) so SNP doing nicely!
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Edinburgh South it was - and if you listen to the Ian Murray BBC interview after he was re-elected you’ll spot pretty quickly that he’s no Corbyn fan - bluntly saying the Labour is dead unless it changes.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Catalonia basically. The SNP could run another referendum but it would be nothing more than a large opinion poll. It would carry no weight, it would not on its it's own lead to independence. It may lead to a real vote of course if the outcome was decisive.
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But like what happened in Catalonia (I think) most who would vote in it would be those supporting independence - yes voters. Many Unionists would not vote and so the result would be pretty meaningless other than the overall numbers voting Yes.
 
Would it not be better for Scotland to wait for the outcome of the trade talks with the EU before pushing for another independence vote? Once they know the details of the agreement they will then be able to look at the full financial impact of independence/joining the EU with regards to any tariffs that might have to be enforced on their exports to rUK and can make their case accordingly. If the trade deal doesn't cover services, which is one of Scotland's biggest exports to rUK, then that could have an impact on finances.
 
Johnson needs to be careful how he handles Scotland.
Those of us who live in NI and Scotland know exactly which Nation he means when he talks about 'one nation' Tories.
He needs to quickly dial back the anti-Scots talk and start doing something positive to show that he is not an empty vessel.
Failure to take quick action and to continue his anti independence stance could lead to a much more militant Independence movement and none of us want that.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Image24.jpg
Chris Cairns at his best.

Abd from the NI perspective
https://twitter.com/x/status/1205283821719080961
 
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ColchesterFC said:
Would it not be better for Scotland to wait for the outcome of the trade talks with the EU before pushing for another independence vote? Once they know the details of the agreement they will then be able to look at the full financial impact of independence/joining the EU with regards to any tariffs that might have to be enforced on their exports to rUK and can make their case accordingly. If the trade deal doesn't cover services, which is one of Scotland's biggest exports to rUK, then that could have an impact on finances.
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That was the original SNP plan but the Tories have argued with themselves for three years and totally failed to 'get Brexit done' within their planned timescale.

The Scottish Government [not the SNP] also asked for umpteen possibilities of deals that would lessen the carnage of Brexit in Scotland...…….all were totally dismissed by May and Johnson.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
That was the original SNP plan but the Tories have argued with themselves for three years and totally failed to 'get Brexit done' within their planned timescale.

The Scottish Government [not the SNP] also asked for umpteen possibilities of deals that would lessen the carnage of Brexit in Scotland...…….all were totally dismissed by May and Johnson.
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As much as I am all in favour of independence we are ultimately at this point part of GB and therefore delighted that democracy has prevailed and Brexit will be done. We became an absolute laughing stock with the nonsense of a select few MP's who wouldn't accept democracy.

Scotland and the SNP are firmly in that boat at present and need to earn the right or have very clear justification to have another referendum.
 
What seriously annoys me is Johnson and ilk quoting the 2014 result.
That result means nothing because of Brexit.

YES and NO voters DID NOT vote for leaving the EU in 2014.
It is a fundable change and the people of Scotland, who massively supported staying in the EU, deserve to have a say.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
How on earth are the SNP going to be 'holding England back'. And in what way is 'England' pandering to the SNP? Explain please.
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England with by far the largest population voted Leave.
The SNP tried to block that for their own purposes, and then demand another Indyref.
In 2014 the SNP tried every trick in the book and now have come up with even more tricks.

And what's happened to NI and Wales...?
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Wales also voted Leave. NI now have a nationalist majority, so a united Ireland is now more likely.
 
Hobbit said:
it isn’t a good idea, it’s about respecting Scotland’s right to choose its own destiny. And once they’re out, they’re out unless the rest of the UK agrees to accept them back, assuming they come asking.
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Why does Scotland have a right to chose 'its own destiny' when I as a British citizen have just as much 'right' to prefer the Union should be paramount.

In their referendum 2 million voted to remain part of the UK. The 'one trick ponies' of the SNP with 1.2 million in the GE did not capture an overall majority of the 5+ million Scots so have no factual basis to over-turn the 2014 vote: that's less than of the 1.6 million Scots who took the opposite decision in 2014. Thus the data does not endorse the SNP's claim they have a mandate to revisit the 'once in a life-time' referendum. IMO it is dangerous rhetoric which would only damage Scotland's citizens were it to try and fully meet the costs of going it alone.

The SNP also expect to be allowed to stay-in or rejoin the EU despite their deficit being 3 times the EU's benchmark. Scotland has none of the fundamental infrastructure of an independent nation - it a pipe dream sold by narrow minded charlatans who ironically charge Liberals, Tory and Labour of deception.
 
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So Wee Krankie is willing to spend in excess of £15m to have a new vote when Sotland has a humungous deficit and will be unable to assure the population of its future given that the benefits/problems of leaving the EU will not be known - surely she should wait for a while?
 
drdel said:
Why does Scotland have a right to chose 'its own destiny' when I as a British citizen have just as much 'right' to prefer the Union should be paramount.

In their referendum 2 million voted to remain part of the UK. The 'one trick ponies' of the SNP with 1.2 million in the GE did not capture an overall majority of the 5+ million Scots so have no factual basis to over-turn the 2014 vote: that's less than of the 1.6 million Scots who took the opposite decision in 2014. Thus the data does not endorse the SNP's claim they have a mandate to revisit the 'once in a life-time' referendum. IMO it is dangerous rhetoric which would only damage Scotland's citizens were it to try and fully meet the costs of going it alone.

The SNP also expect to be allowed to stay-in or rejoin the EU despite their deficit being 3 times the EU's benchmark. Scotland has none of the fundamental infrastructure of an independent nation - it a pipe dream sold by narrow minded charlatans who ironically charge Liberals, Tory and Labour of deception.
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So why do you think Scotland are so poor under Westminster rule [compared to England] and why do you not think that once they re-finance their share of the absolutely massive UK debt repayment that they should not manage as well as comparable countries such as Ireland, Norway Switzerland etc
 
Doon frae Troon said:
So why do you think Scotland are so poor under Westminster rule [compared to England] and why do you not think that once they re-finance their share of the absolutely massive UK debt repayment that they should not manage as well as comparable countries such as Ireland, Norway Switzerland etc
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I guess that is a question for your Assembly who have not delivered on their promises and failed on fiscal management...

Independence would need to address.
The Barnet systems give you 20% more per capita. So that's a 'bailout' needed from somewhere - who.
Even with UK support the deficit is rising.
Your Health service is supported by mostly agency staff at high costs.
Kids are under performing in your Schools
Scotland has no currency controls so relies on the Bank of England and sterling to provide stability.
The SNP's case was based on Oil revenues at $150/barrel - its now $65!
etc, etc.

Just for devilment I'll mention that Scotland's fiscal management does not seem to have evolved since the Scottish Darien Scheme failed and needed cash injection.Then there is the fact that you could not continually use Westminster as a scapegoat.
 
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there was a snp mp on the radio last night happily avioding the question of how a hard border would be implemented once they joined the EU ?
 
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