The Players Championship 2019 - #5thMajor

[Dan2501]

Harry Diamond is clearly the right caddy for Rory, he's made that very obvious since hiring him and that's all that matters. Always found it bizarre that so many got on Rory's back for dropping JP and hiring Harry. Nobody seems to get on Tommy's back for having one of his mates on the bag, so why is it different for Rory? Not like he's just plucked someone out of nowhere either, it's exactly the same as Tommy and Finno - both played amateur golf together, both very good players in their own right (Diamond is a +2 handicap).

 

[rksquire]

Some people have their brother or brother-in-law on the bag, some their partner, some have their friends, some have a local Mexican caddy.

How do we define the best caddy in the world? Is it the guy on the bag of the golfers with the most wins? Is it the caddy to the average golfer punching above his weight results wise? Is it the ex-teacher who initially took a year off to caddy for an up & comer? Interestingly, Diamond is having more input now and asking questions.

He may or may not be amongst the best in the world - but it doesn't matter. It matters what the golfer thinks and how comfortable the relationship is. And at this stage of the year (Jan-March), assuming 10% excluding bonuses, Diamond has amassed about $450k in caddy earnings which probably makes him one of the best paid on tour. So he probably doesn't care either if people don't consider him the best.

 

[Captainron]

So chief-bottler Rory was out-bottled this time by two other bottlejobs in Tommy and Rahm. Shame Furyk bottled that three-footer, or Rory could have bottled in a play-off instead.

99 bottles of beer on the wall 99 bottles of beer...

Don't know why that came into my head

 

[Imurg]

I think for someone to be called the best caddy in the world, they'd have to win events with multiple golfers. Otherwise it's horses for courses, a caddy might be perfect for their particularly golfer but be useless for a different one.

Valid.
But what makes them the best?
I think most people would agree that Bones was one of, if not the, best in the business and he was on Mickelson's bag when Adam was a lad...

 

[duncan mackie]

You know 58 yr old Jim Furyk who hits it (in relative terms) nowhere almost won last night right? Tiger isn't going to dominate anymore (5+ wins a season) but to say middle of the pack and not really close to winning is way off the mark. He'll be right up there in multiple events each season and I'd expect at least 1 win a year for the next few years if he stays fit.

Those comments are like he's turning into someone who's happy to play for a cheque each week. He'd retire if he thought that's all he could achieve.

Didn't think Jim was even on the seniors tour (yet) - you may have aged him the odd 10 years here...

 

[Orikoru]

Valid.
But what makes them the best?
I think most people would agree that Bones was one of, if not the, best in the business and he was on Mickelson's bag when Adam was a lad...

I personally don't even know what makes the 'best' caddy. Technically they all do the same thing, give yardages and club selection advice. The difference presumably is how much respect they command, and whether the golfer actually allows themself to be influenced by them.

One of the commentators slated Rahm's caddy yesterday after he made that stupid attempt to find the green with a hook out of the bunker and put in the water. They were saying why/how on earth has he not talked Rahm out of doing that. So maybe that caddy is just accepting what Rahm wants, or Rahm doesn't respect the caddy enough to take his advice.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I personally don't even know what makes the 'best' caddy. Technically they all do the same thing, give yardages and club selection advice. The difference presumably is how much respect they command, and whether the golfer actually allows themself to be influenced by them.

One of the commentators slated Rahm's caddy yesterday after he made that stupid attempt to find the green with a hook out of the bunker and put in the water. They were saying why/how on earth has he not talked Rahm out of doing that. So maybe that caddy is just accepting what Rahm wants, or Rahm doesn't respect the caddy enough to take his advice.

The commentator clearly hadn’t seen the conversation between Rahm and his caddy - ultimately it’s up to the player to hit the shot , the caddy is there to do whatever the players wants and that is varying degrees

For example - Westwood has his girlfriend caddy him a lot now , but she just carries the bag nothing else , Poulter has two caddies - Terry who he leans on a lot - asks him for advice , reads , and also offers shot choices without being asked - and another caddy who mainly carries the bag and only gives advice when asked

Then you have the likes of Bones and Mickelson who talked over every shot , Mickelson with his new caddy has a different relationship

It’s all about what the player wants - -Rory has always been strong minded about his game , early days JP worked really well with him , he was very much a passive caddy with Rory and that worked , Harry is again another passive caddy but he is becoming more and more active and you can see them talking a lot more over recent weeks and it’s working so for Rory he is perfect - suspect their relationship is a lot better than what Rory had with JP

Rahm and his caddy talked extensively about the shot - the caddy gave his advice and where he should play it but Rahm didn’t like or feel the shot the caddy suggested , the caddy can’t force the player and Rahm made the choice which failed but no doubt Rahm respects his caddy and will ask him again and the caddy will give his advice again , it’s a good relationship.

Top players find their caddy - Woods was with Williams for years , Rose and Fulch Mickelson and Bones - list is long , and most of those caddies are fully respected and a good one never goes long without a bag

 

[Grant85]

You know 58 yr old Jim Furyk who hits it (in relative terms) nowhere almost won last night right? Tiger isn't going to dominate anymore (5+ wins a season) but to say middle of the pack and not really close to winning is way off the mark. He'll be right up there in multiple events each season and I'd expect at least 1 win a year for the next few years if he stays fit.

Those comments are like he's turning into someone who's happy to play for a cheque each week. He'd retire if he thought that's all he could achieve.

Jim is 58? He is 48, which is 5 years older than Woods - with fewer / no health problems.

Middle of the pack is very much where he is and has been.

 

[Grant85]

He only won 6 starts ago, in one of the biggest tournaments of last year. He's missed just 2 cuts since he came back from having his spine fused. I'd say he's doing alright, and has already proven since coming back he's good enough to win. I'm confident he'll win again this year, just needs a week where he makes his fair share of putts.

He won a 30 man event where a decent chunk of the field were simply free wheeling in a 'no cut' pay day and which was a few days away from the Ryder Cup. Sure a decent achievement and very much intimidated Rory into capitulating, but it's a far cry from a full field regular season event or a major.

I'm talking about winning a proper event with 100 to 150 guys all going at it with minds not elsewhere. And in reality, we are talking about majors as that's all that Tiger is going to be measured against.

 

[Grant85]

Tiger did alright over the weekend, if wasn’t for that horror at 17 on Friday he would be what 4 shots better off so 6 shots off the lead

Ironically he apparently could have taken a drop on the island for his first

What a mistake

It seems a big mistake.

Ok, so probably isn't going to win anything with quad on the card. But as you say, give him a 3 there - he still needs to find another 6 shots for a play-off.

Tiger is making a reasonable number of birdies, but too many bogeys. His irons and wedges are good, but driving and putting are not where they need to be.
Ironically, this probably helps his cause at Augusta if the scoring is not too crazy.
But Augusta suits plenty of guys who have better numbers than Tiger.

 

[Dan2501]

He won a 30 man event where a decent chunk of the field were simply free wheeling in a 'no cut' pay day and which was a few days away from the Ryder Cup. Sure a decent achievement and very much intimidated Rory into capitulating, but it's a far cry from a full field regular season event or a major.

I'm talking about winning a proper event with 100 to 150 guys all going at it with minds not elsewhere. And in reality, we are talking about majors as that's all that Tiger is going to be measured against.

You can spin it how you want. He won a 30 man event against the 29 best performing players on the PGA Tour for last season. An event with a massive purse, a ton of world-ranking points and a huge number of Fed-Ex Cup points up for grabs, which in-turn can win them even more money.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You can spin it how you want. He won a 30 man event against the 29 best performing players on the PGA Tour for last season. An event with a massive purse, a ton of world-ranking points and a huge number of Fed-Ex Cup points up for grabs, which in-turn can win them even more money.

You can only beat who is in front of you in any sport on any given week.

 

[Grant85]

You can spin it how you want. He won a 30 man event against the 29 best performing players on the PGA Tour for last season. An event with a massive purse, a ton of world-ranking points and a huge number of Fed-Ex Cup points up for grabs, which in-turn can win them even more money.

He did win it. but winning a major against maybe 150 other players is a whole other ball game, and if you give me Tiger vs the Field, I'm taking the field every week.

 

[Dasit]

He did win it. but winning a major against maybe 150 other players is a whole other ball game, and if you give me Tiger vs the Field, I'm taking the field every week.

Would you take tiger to win another major or never win a major again?


I would take win a major every time


He is still a top quality player, swinging better than ever arguably.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would you take tiger to win another major or never win a major again?


I would take win a major every time


He is still a top quality player, swinging better than ever arguably.

Swinging better than ever ? Not from what I can see , he used to destroy courses at will , now he struggles to keep it on the fairway consistently enough to get many bogey free rounds on the card

Don’t think he will a Major again because imo his swing and overall game is not strong and consistent enough to go through four rounds on the toughest courses under the toughest conditions and be above all the top quality golfers that are playing right now. In fairness he seems in a better place overall in his life , happier on the course and enjoying the whole experience. Just have to look at the courses the majors are going to be played on and he is going to struggle imo

 

[Grant85]

Would you take tiger to win another major or never win a major again?


I would take win a major every time


He is still a top quality player, swinging better than ever arguably.

It would be a big call to say he won't win another, but the stats are obviously very much against him in terms of his age. He is playing ok, but definitely not better than 97 to 2008... and definitely not better than Rory, Rose, Molinari, DJ, Bryson, Thomas, Koepka, Fleetwood etc.

Phil is the only player to win a major this century at age 43 or older (Tiger's age now).

Plus the strength and depth in the game is getting stronger and stronger. So this makes it even more likely that out of 100 or so top players in a major field, 1 will be better than Tiger even when he puts his best 72 holes together.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think if Woods is going to win another major, Augusta has to be his main opportunity. He won't get overly penalised there for missing fairways and he knows the place well.

 

[Imurg]

Not saying Tiger won't win one because he obviously could.
But the odds are stacking higher against him all the time.
He's the same age now as Mickelson was when he won the Open
The only, genuine, current player to have won one in their 40's - Ernie and DC are the others but they're less relevent these days.
Only other over 40's winner this century was Vijay
It can be done, bit when you have the current crop being as good as they are, I think it will take more than the stars aligning for him to bag another.
But I still refer you to my first sentence
Anyone teeing it up in a Major can win one.

 

[Grant85]

Didn’t both Ernie Els and Clarke win in their early 40’s ?

Yes - early 40s. Both younger than Tiger is now.
Also both Open championships. In my opinion, best chance for an old guy to win a major.

 

[Papas1982]

Yes - early 40s. Both younger than Tiger is now.
Also both Open championships. In my opinion, best chance for an old guy to win a major.

Tbf Woods base level is significantly higher than both of those.

I think it's far too early to say he will never win one again been as he was right in the mix at the last open?