Two things the pros do....

Maninblack4612

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..to generate the power they do.

I was at Slaley Hall last week watching the Asian tour. It was great because there weren't many spectators, or ropes & you could get really close to the players. There's nothing like watching good players live, you see much more than studying video or watching on TV. As you can imagine most of the players were hitting the ball prodigious distances with little apparent effort. Some were obviously swinging very hard but the majority looked to be playing well within themselves. One individual was about 5' 10" tall & looked about 10 stone but he still hit it around 300 yards off the tee.

Studying the players it looked to me that the power was being generated in two ways:

1. Every player I watched had the lower body turned anti clockwise before anything else, clearing the hips extremely early. This obviously moves the hands & arms very fast in a whiplash type action. Rory, in particular does this.

2. A lot of the swings were short & appeared not to have a lot of shoulder turn or wrist cock. However, when you look closely at the swing sequence virtually every player was still setting his wrists as the downswing started i.e. reducing the angle between the shaft & left arm. This creation of lag, & its release into the ball, combined with the speed at which the upper body is travelling, produces the effortless looking power which the pros have.

I'm sure that the above has been advocated by many, if not all coaches, but to see it close up in action is really educational. Following my visits I went to the range and tried to put into practice the two above points. I have a tendency not to clear the hips in an effort not to pull the shot left (it seldom work!) I know pretty well exactly how far I carry a six iron at the range, I'm there often enough, &, when I executed the shot properly, I was pitching an 8 iron almost as far as the 6. If I failed to clear the hips I was getting the most spectacular semi-circular hooks you've ever seen & if I forgot the lag the pushes were quite spectacular. On the course on Tuesday I knocked two drives past someone who I normally struggle to keep up to. It still feels so foreign that I struggle a bit with it but I'm sure it's worth persevering with.

It's a long time since I watched any live golf but you can really learn by being close to the players.
 

Canary_Yellow

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Interestingly, I think science has shown that hip speed doesn’t drive swing speed. Proper sequencing is obviously key, but hip rotation speed less so, plenty of LPGA players rotate hips quicker than Rory, for example.

I’m a big fan of the likes of monte scheinblum and Jake Hutt, and they teach a feeling which is the opposite of lag. Trying to create that angle is seemingly out of vogue.
 

bobmac

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1. Every player I watched had the lower body turned anti clockwise before anything else, clearing the hips extremely early. This obviously moves the hands & arms very fast in a whiplash type action. Rory, in particular does this.

I’m a big fan of the likes of monte scheinblum and Jake Hutt, and they teach a feeling which is the opposite of lag. Trying to create that angle is seemingly out of vogue.

Watch the video below, especially Rory's hips through impact and the lag he creates in the downswing

 

chrisd

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I was trying to sort out a swing on Wednesday at the range that was misbehaving, the fault was exactly what you advocate doing. If I turned the hips too soon it left the irons open through impact and I sliced. If I time the swing with the hips opening just in time to let the hands and club through the result is straight or a slight fade. I did have to see the club hit ball, and feel i go past it about 8 inches before I turn fully.
 

bobmac

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At impact, you want your hips open to the target and your shoulders square to the target.
If you try and turn your hips faster and your shoulders follow, you're stuffed.
 

Maninblack4612

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At impact, you want your hips open to the target and your shoulders square to the target.
If you try and turn your hips faster and your shoulders follow, you're stuffed.
I find that I have to consciously hold the right shoulder back at the start of the downswing to avoid that, otherwise I get a straight pull. This is as a result of years of taking the club back too much inside & having to come over the top to get it to go straight.
 

bobmac

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I find that I have to consciously hold the right shoulder back at the start of the downswing to avoid that, otherwise I get a straight pull. This is as a result of years of taking the club back too much inside & having to come over the top to get it to go straight.

How far left does the straight pull go?
 

bobmac

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Probably 20 yards with the driver. I still go back too far on the inside if I'm not careful & get the odd hook, it's a constant struggle.

And it always will be, especially when you try something new, the old swing will go where it wants to go. (out to in)
Unless........

If you hit 10 straight pulls in a row with your old swing, you'd miss the green/fairway every time unless the green/fairway was 20 left of where you are aiming.
In other words, aim 20 yards right of your target, let the swing go where it wants to go and your pull will hit the target every time. You may need to strengthen your grip a touch to square the face up with the swing path.
So instead of trying to change the swing path to the target, move the target to the swing path by aiming right.

The ball doesn't care where you are aiming, it only cares where the swing path is and where the clubface is pointing at impact.
If you're not convinced, look at my aim in the vid below, my feet are at least 20 yards right of the target and yet the ball still takes off straight (the big tree)

 

Slab

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@bobmac thanks for that vid, I'm working through something similar so its very relatable
I have no problem aiming right on the range resulting in a straight ball flight but its a much tougher mental challenge to do it out on the course
 

Maninblack4612

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And it always will be, especially when you try something new, the old swing will go where it wants to go. (out to in)
Unless........

If you hit 10 straight pulls in a row with your old swing, you'd miss the green/fairway every time unless the green/fairway was 20 left of where you are aiming.
In other words, aim 20 yards right of your target, let the swing go where it wants to go and your pull will hit the target every time. You may need to strengthen your grip a touch to square the face up with the swing path.
So instead of trying to change the swing path to the target, move the target to the swing path by aiming right.

The ball doesn't care where you are aiming, it only cares where the swing path is and where the clubface is pointing at impact.
If you're not convinced, look at my aim in the vid below, my feet are at least 20 yards right of the target and yet the ball still takes off straight (the big tree)

I always aim right. The odd time it goes where I'm pointing I either miss the green or hold onto the right hand side. It took longer than it should have for me to realise this!
 

jim8flog

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I know from all the years of watching on the box many of the swing gurus commentating have often said "look at how good he is at clearing his hips"
 

Canary_Yellow

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If you watch his hips, they stop turning at impact. I don't know what Monte Shinybum teaches but I have always thought the clubhead speed comes from the lag

Witty stuff.

In relation to lag, Monte teaches that it is something that happens as a consequence of making the right moves in the right sequence, rather than something that golfers should chase after as a feeling.

I don't spend ages digesting the latest knowledge on the science of the golf swing, but I assume you do as what self respecting professional in any industry wouldn't want to keep their knowledge up to date? I am obliged to as part of my annual membership sign-off in my profession.

For example, what is known now about the kinematic sequence given the tech available today, vs what was assumed to be the case before science could tell us is drastically different I presume. At one point, X factor was a big thing, my understanding is that is now known not to be?

You tell me. I'm not an expert, I'm just repeating what other experts say is the case based on their research/reading using the latest tech that's available to give us answers that weren't available before, and solely on the basis that what these people teach has worked for me in a way that the traditional ideas that have been appearing in golf magazines for decades have not.
 
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