The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 1740]

I think we'd all agree diving has ruined the game and the only way to stop it is to stop giving fouls when these big strong powerful athletes get blown over by the shadow of a defender.

I think with the new rules the refs are adhering to we've seen a huge decline in numbers of dives and silly fouls given to date. Long may it continue

Most players now are staying on their feet when they'd have gone down in previous seasons. It's a better game although there's still fouls that aren't given when they most definitely should be, Tarkowski on Richarlison example.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Yep, he's seen the defender fly in, made sure he gets to the ball first, and then anticipates the impact is coming. If players simply stayed on their feet, assuming no contact, and only contact impacts on their balance, I'd imagine there would be many nasty injuries. I've done it myself, where I've fallen to the ground when trying to get out of the way of a challenge. Sometimes I might be able to stay on my feet, other times no chance, it just depends on my momentum and balance at the time. It seems like referees are going to be happy with defenders flying into challenges this season, and offer no punishment if no or minimal contact is made (or contact after ball). We all saw the challenge of Tarkowski on Richarlison last week that went unpunished. The officials do not have a clue. They are trying to rigidly stick to guidelines directed to them, they have no form of common sense or understanding of what is and what is not acceptable.

In all reality, do fans really know what is and what is not an acceptable challenge anymore? Do professional defenders even know? I'm all for letting the game flow, and letting game go on when a player throws themselves to the ground after getting a gentle nudge on the back (like defenders often do when trying to shield ball deep in their own half). But if players dive into a challenge, do not win the ball and the opponent is either hit or has to take evasive action, the ref needs to act.

I dont think one decision means that that is the norm, though.

I think most refs/VAR refs would have at least booked Tarkowski for his bad one on Richarlison. The same for Ronaldo's 1st pen shout, I think most would have given that as a pen, just not the ones on the day.

 

[hairball_89]

snip...

It’s about time refs and VAR start doing their jobs better.

100% agreement here. All day long.

VAR can only work if the people using it are doing their job correctly, and the current bunch of referees all, collectively are not good enough. As was demonstrated this weekend in pretty much every single game. I don't think I've ever been to a match and come away without hearing someone say the ref was awful, and yes we will all believe at times the referee was biased against our team.

But by god the biggest thing VAR coming in has shown is how bad some of these refs are. but at least they're equally awful for everyone?!

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting comments on Ronaldo going down before the contact and indeed with zero contact at all - Ronaldo anticipated the tackle and went down , it’s diving/simulation - if he thinks the tackle is coming then why not “jump over it” - the reason why is because if there is contact he will get the penalty.

He has fell on the floor dramatically with no contact at all - it’s a dive

You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.

 

[Swango1980]

I dont think one decision means that that is the norm, though.

I think most refs/VAR refs would have at least booked Tarkowski for his bad one on Richarlison. The same for Ronaldo's 1st pen shout, I think most would have given that as a pen, just not the ones on the day.

Hope you are right. But, I think refs are instinctively trying to let things go based on what they've been asked, and so they are less likely to stop play for hard challenges. It seems that VAR has really done nothing to lessen inconsistency though

 

[Dando]

Yep that’s still a penalty. Not sure why anyone would suggest it isn’t.

 

[PJ87]

I think we'd all agree diving has ruined the game and the only way to stop it is to stop giving fouls when these big strong powerful athletes get blown over by the shadow of a defender.

I think with the new rules the refs are adhering to we've seen a huge decline in numbers of dives and silly fouls given to date. Long may it continue

Most players now are staying on their feet when they'd have gone down in previous seasons. It's a better game although there's still fouls that aren't given when they most definitely should be, Tarkowski on Richarlison example.

Ronaldos first other day the ball had gone he saw a leg mad sure he wrapped his round.. vardy esk


Now IF this was a change in applying the rules and now this isn't a pen (same as the simulation for the zouma one) then I think most fans would be all for it


However what I think is more likely is that it was weak from the ref and we simple have poor officials

 

[Liverbirdie]

It’s interesting when we talk about diving or trailing legs etc
When a defender is at full stretch or his full force goes into a challenge or a player goes over the top serious injuries can occur.
A player sometimes sees this coming and will adapt in a mini second to prevent him being hurt.
We often say “if his leg was planted it would have been broken”.
Defenders need to stay on their feet and not dive in.
Midfielders need to stop going over the ball.
Goalkeepers need to stop coming out and lifting their knees up.
Will they? Of course not ,so refs and VAR officials need to have a better understanding of what’s malicious and what’s not.
I’ve played football to a decent standard never once went into a tackle not to win the ball,was I late,yes many times.
Would I know if I meant to hurt someone,of course I would.
I think most of us now know the divers.
We no the hard tacklers the dirty players and the outright cheaters.
It’s about time refs and VAR start doing their jobs better.

I agree with some of the above, but:-

Would you ban the slide tackle? - I wouldn't.
Goalkeepers knees / punching - Definitely agree.
Yes, we do know the divers in the main - Richarlison, Mane, Ronaldo, Kane are among the worst - do you referee a game according to the rules, or based on who the individual is - a very tough line, but that is where the benefit of the doubt "unofficial" rules come in. We dont like it when it goes against us, love it when it does.

 

[PJ87]

You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.

https://twitter.com/x/status/942111903253499904

What about this one? Bear in mind he got the pen then a ban for diving retrospectively one of only 2 players to ever get one (both not at "top clubs")

 

[Liverbirdie]

Hope you are right. But, I think refs are instinctively trying to let things go based on what they've been asked, and so they are less likely to stop play for hard challenges. It seems that VAR has really done nothing to lessen inconsistency though

I dont think the refs have been given the ok to allow hard challenges to stand, more told to not let slight contact fouls.

I used to work with a premiership linesman, and every month they had a meeting and went through controversial decisions and watched videos together and discussed directives. I would think it would be the same now, but a level of inconsistency will always be there.

Personally, I think it would improve if you had a stable of say 20 recently retired referees and 10 ex players, with 3 per game (2 refs, 1 player) as the VAR officials every week so then there is a better idea of the directives/consistency applied for VAR. That would be better than current refs doing it, as they are making a holy mess of it.

 

[Swango1980]

https://twitter.com/x/status/942111903253499904

What about this one? Bear in mind he got the pen then a ban for diving retrospectively one of only 2 players to ever get one (both not at "top clubs")

Interesting one that. Again, the defender has started to lunge in. Stopped the lunge, but still edged in front of player. I think the ban on the player for diving is probably harsh, we could probably point to this sort of fall in most games.

A lot of opinion seems to be that the onus is on the attacking player to get out of the way of the defender, whether that be by hurdling the challenge completely (whilst maintaining balance), or keeping balance after minor contact. Yet, if the defender was not there in the first place, lunging into a challenge, then there would be no falling over or potential injury.

Harvey Elliot didn't see the challenge coming, but had he done the only way he could have avoided it was get his standing foot off the ground, and thus he could have easily fallen over. Would this have been a dive, and possible 2 game ban (if it was in the box)? And, this was a challenge that in many respects, people saw as a fair challenge as he won a lot of the ball.

For me, the simplest question is "has the defender dived in?" If so, "have they won the ball"? If no, then "have they contacted, or gone into the path of the attacker"? If yes, then it is a foul. Defenders should be sure that they are going to win the ball when they dive in, and be sure they do not put the opponent at high risk of injury

 

[pokerjoke]

Until its Mane and we'll have 5 pages of accusations ??

No we all have them Stu

 

[Swango1980]

I dont think the refs have been given the ok to allow hard challenges to stand, more told to not let slight contact fouls.

I used to work with a premiership linesman, and every month they had a meeting and went through controversial decisions and watched videos together and discussed directives. I would think it would be the same now, but a level of inconsistency will always be there.

Personally, I think it would improve if you had a stable of say 20 recently retired referees and 10 ex players, with 3 per game (2 refs, 1 player) as the VAR officials every week so then there is a better idea of the directives/consistency applied for VAR. That would be better than current refs doing it, as they are making a holy mess of it.

As long as the ex Player is not Merson. He doesn't half talk some rubbish

 

[pokerjoke]

I agree with some of the above, but:-

Would you ban the slide tackle? - I wouldn't.
Goalkeepers knees / punching - Definitely agree.
Yes, we do know the divers in the main - Richarlison, Mane, Ronaldo, Kane are among the worst - do you referee a game according to the rules, or based on who the individual is - a very tough line, but that is where the benefit of the doubt "unofficial" rules come in. We dont like it when it goes against us, love it when it does.

Very true Pete
The game is so fast these day nigh on impossible for the ref.
However it’s easy for VAR all the technology is there.
Fans can see it clearly but for some reason VAR cant

 

[pokerjoke]

Interesting comments on Ronaldo going down before the contact and indeed with zero contact at all - Ronaldo anticipated the tackle and went down , it’s diving/simulation - if he thinks the tackle is coming then why not “jump over it” - the reason why is because if there is contact he will get the penalty.

He has fell on the floor dramatically with no contact at all - it’s a dive

You’ve never played the game though have you.
Let’s see you call out your players
I think most proper Liverpool fans on here said the 1st and 3rd challenges on Ronaldo were pens as did most Utd fans.
The 2nd challenge clearly was not.

 

[Liverbirdie]

As long as the ex Player is not Merson. He doesn't half talk some rubbish

I was thinking Graeme Souness, Roy Keane, Fash the bash, Terry Hurlock, Peter Reid......

 

[Tashyboy]

https://t.co/Jy9THY5su8

Didn't notice at the time but Ronaldo was going down before zouma even got to him lol

There was a couple of things that I noticed from the weekends games. When Kyle Walker got sent off then sent on, during that coming together the Saints player at one point had both feet off the ground Before he and Walker made contact. Even if just for a split second. Both feet were off the ground. So by the letter of the law, he is not in control. It’s a red. I don’t agree with the ruling. That said, Walkers challenge was clumsy. I said nowt coz it’s rose tinted glasses.
The Ronaldo incident where he is going down. It was another clumsy challenge. But Ronaldo was already going down. So is it a yellow. Again it is not worth saying owt because of ones glasses colour, agenda etc.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.

Yes I watched the clip

Was Ronaldo touched ? Nope

So he chose to go to ground and his legs collapsed under him.

he went down expected contact and expecting to be given a penalty - so it’s not a foul and dive

The other challenge was one where he was touched and there was contact that impeded him and it should have been a penalty

We have seen it from other players in the past and it’s the same conclusion - if a player has gone to ground without being touched then it’s diving

 

[PJ87]

You’ve never played the game though have you.
Let’s see you call out your players
I think most proper Liverpool fans on here said the 1st and 3rd challenges on Ronaldo were pens as did most Utd fans.
The 2nd challenge clearly was not.

Id say of Ronaldos I was surprised 1st wasn't given as we have been used to them being given for ages

3rd no for me as he was already on the way down but he was just clever

Then again if he just got the contact and rode the challenge he would get the pen

 

[Tashyboy]

You did watch the clip, right? Or does that not bother you because it was Ronaldo and United?

He stretched with his foot to get to the ball first. That would have been the foot his weight would have been on. Given he'd stretched forward, he would struggle greatly to then jump upwards from it. And, if he'd tried, he risks a snapped ankle had the defender than made contact.

Is that in response to the Twitter video clip of Ronaldo going down ?