The all things EV chat thread

[PJ87]

No, it has range in miles, not %. But even then if it said 50% and I don't know what that equates to and I have no idea if it's going to actually achieve/provide it then it's going to make me edgy. 130 miles is c.45% of it's c.295 mile starting point over a distance that's actually only 15% of the indicated capability and no one seemed to be able to pin-point why that was. Of course, I was informed that other people had had better (and some worse) results... Not sure why they thought anecdotes on proving the variability would appease my twanging banjo...

There might be a % guage hidden in the settings .. I think my car is only one without

However your app should give you a lot of information

I know for example I got 4.7 miles per kw on the way home today (45kw battery) that's 211 miles if always at that rate

I do believe after a few days you will get the hang of it and get used to it

Takes its time to learn your driving style

They guess o Meter is crap

But then a car drops in real time but has more range to work with so the drop off is less noticeable ..

My car used to do 15m changes in range .. it was stupid now since an update it does in 2 miles I think

The software can change and sort out issues which is good

They still perfecting the tech for sure

 

[bobmac]

diesel engines can and often do 400k miles or more and still can run ok. If batteries have a life of only 100 or even 150k, for example, before needing to be replaced, that is a major negative that can put people off and could see the car at 10 years old being worthless if a replacement battery is 10k+

The batteries don't just suddenly conk out and leave you stranded on the hard shoulder so they won't be worthless.
The older cars will be worth less than newer cars but isn't that the case with all cars?
The original Nissan Leaf for example has a battery health gauge on the dashboard. 12 bars is full range, 10 not so good etc but you use that to negotiate your price. And even if you do want another battery you can swap for a second hand 40kw for around £4k.
I remember Murph telling an exhaust system for his Merc was £5,500.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

The batteries don't just suddenly conk out and leave you stranded on the hard shoulder so they won't be worthless.
The older cars will be worth less than newer cars but isn't that the case with all cars?
The original Nissan Leaf for example has a battery health gauge on the dashboard. 12 bars is full range, 10 not so good etc but you use that to negotiate your price. And even if you do want another battery you can swap for a second hand 40kw for around £4k.
I remember Murph telling an exhaust system for his Merc was £5,500.

...and one for a Picanto will be £50, ridiculous comparison

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Apologies for a link to The Scum

Some ICEs are expensive.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m-bill-range-rover-service-engine-seized/amp/

 

[PNWokingham]

The batteries don't just suddenly conk out and leave you stranded on the hard shoulder so they won't be worthless.
The older cars will be worth less than newer cars but isn't that the case with all cars?
The original Nissan Leaf for example has a battery health gauge on the dashboard. 12 bars is full range, 10 not so good etc but you use that to negotiate your price. And even if you do want another battery you can swap for a second hand 40kw for around £4k.
I remember Murph telling an exhaust system for his Merc was £5,500.

I don't think we have too much reliable data on how batteries function at 10 years or so. Mobile phone batteries lose a lot more than 10% performance in 2 or 3 years so predicting a car range 10 years and 150k later is not encouraging. The comparisons to petrol or diesal cars on this issue is not really relevant. Sure you can spend 3 to 5k on the best exhaust going on a 100k AMG but that is not a stock part and is not needed - it is an upgrade not a replacement. You replace bits on cars all the time but they are generally things in the hundreds not the thousands or even 10 or 15k that decent batteries may cost. There is a thriving market in 10 to 15 year old cars - as that is the target market and budget for many people who want to spend under 5k or even nearer 1 or 2k. I cannot see how this market is well served from electric cars in 10 or 15 years time if the huge cost of the battery issue is way more than the car is worth. If a 15y old golf turbo diesel needs a new turbo that is still a 3 figure job and will give a new lease of life to a tired car and make it fit for several more years. The same needs to be a reality for electric cars and that does not look to be the case. In that context, I see a lot of electric cars, especially the earlier models being on the scrap help and an increasingly limit supply of petrol and diesel cars making a very strong market all through the 2030s. Maybe the 2040s will be a different story as the much better battery performance of new electric cars over the later part of this decade (and hopefully much lower battery costs) will change the picture

 

[DanFST]

Apologies for a link to The Scum

Some ICEs are expensive.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...m-bill-range-rover-service-engine-seized/amp/

As someone that successfully took a garage to court, this makes absolutely 0 sense.

 

[bobmac]

Fortunately, only the sale of NEW ice cars will be stopped in 2030 meaning those wanting to continue buying £1-2k ICE cars can do so. But that means a new EV today will be 8 years old by then and all the research I've done indicates that battery technology will continue to improve at the previous rate. Don't forget, 12 years ago EVs in the UK didn't exist, you couldn't buy one so we have come a long way in that time.
I've never said EVs are for everyone yet and it will take years, maybe decades, but I'm looking forwards to the day when I can charge my EV with renewable energy for very little money and improve the quality of the air we breathe.
Being able to sneak up on cyclists will just be a bonus

 

[Bdill93]

My best friend works in the electrical industry as a buyer. A guy he used to work with who now works for a market leading car company that in 2 years time, battery technology is changing forever. They are just waiting for production to catch up before producing for the mass market.

I think it'll take 20 years at a minimum to phase out petrol and diesel cars for the masses. When I really look around now, its not often you see a pre-2000 car on the road as a day to day runner for families. I rarely see my first car around anymore (53 plate Renault Clio - the one with the bum!)

I will be going electric next I imagine! 3 years till then though!

 

[Robster59]

There are a couple of people here where I would say a plug in hybrid would be their best choice? Are these hybrids still ‘future proof’ or are they outdated by the acceleration of EVs already?

I have a PHEV. A Skoda Superb iV. I've used it on long runs (Glasgow to Surrey) and for towing a caravan. At the moment, as I haven't been able to do much business travel, I have hardly bought any fuel for it. I charge it up at home every night and run it on electric during the day.
On the long runs, when running in auto-hybrid mode, I tend to get about 50+mpg all around. A little less than my 2.0 Turbo Diesel but not as bad as I thought.
It's a 1.4 turbo petrol, I get circa 30 miles only on all electric mode and it can take 5-6 hours to charge overnight.
My bigger issue is finding somewhere to charge when I am away. Because of its slow charge, I cannot do a quick stop and top-up. And it seems that wherever I have stopped overnight, there haven't been any charging points. So when I went to see my kids in Surrey between Christmas and New Year, I couldn't find anywhere nearby to top up the batteries.
So I finished up doing about 1000 miles with no recharge and all on petrol.
Mine is a company car, there were no pure electric on the list, so the hybrid was the no-brainer on company car tax saving.
I still like the car, and it does me perfectly well for now.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

My best friend works in the electrical industry as a buyer. A guy he used to work with who now works for a market leading car company that in 2 years time, battery technology is changing forever. They are just waiting for production to catch up before producing for the mass market.

I think it'll take 20 years at a minimum to phase out petrol and diesel cars for the masses. When I really look around now, its not often you see a pre-2000 car on the road as a day to day runner for families. I rarely see my first car around anymore (53 plate Renault Clio - the one with the bum!)

I will be going electric next I imagine! 3 years till then though!

Very interesting post Bdill

I don't doubt, as bobmac alludes to, that things will improve, they have to, the current battery range and life is unacceptable for many, once those hurdles are overcome things will change. It won't solve the issue of people who live in flats or terraces of course, but it's a start.

If they really could overcome all three issues, plus cost then, I'd be in, purely on style. The Kia EV6 for eg is a stunning motor, and it's not alone. Torn from the restrictions of a petrol/diesel engine and necessary accouterments, you can see designers starting to take the reigns off.

 

[PJ87]

My best friend works in the electrical industry as a buyer. A guy he used to work with who now works for a market leading car company that in 2 years time, battery technology is changing forever. They are just waiting for production to catch up before producing for the mass market.

I think it'll take 20 years at a minimum to phase out petrol and diesel cars for the masses. When I really look around now, its not often you see a pre-2000 car on the road as a day to day runner for families. I rarely see my first car around anymore (53 plate Renault Clio - the one with the bum!)

I will be going electric next I imagine! 3 years till then though!

Im really hoping this 2 years is realistic .. my lease is up in 3

Very interesting post Bdill

I don't doubt, as bobmac alludes to, that things will improve, they have to, the current battery range and life is unacceptable for many, once those hurdles are overcome things will change. It won't solve the issue of people who live in flats or terraces of course, but it's a start.

If they really could overcome all three issues, plus cost then, I'd be in, purely on style. The Kia EV6 for eg is a stunning motor, and it's not alone. Torn from the restrictions of a petrol/diesel engine and necessary accouterments, you can see designers starting to take the reigns off.

these batteries will be a game changer and will semi solve the issue for those in flats etc because whilst they wont be able to charge at home there will be 150KW chargers at stations like the Shell refill stations they have been waiting.. / gridserve charge points like the one in braintree

the charge speed will increase and further on the charge so it will become a once a week top up like petrol going to a station .. obviously the home option will be there for those who have that option which will reduce the demand for the chargers on route freeing them up more

 

[Deleted member 30522]

these batteries will be a game changer and will semi solve the issue for those in flats etc because whilst they wont be able to charge at home there will be 150KW chargers at stations like the Shell refill stations they have been waiting.. / gridserve charge points like the one in braintree

the charge speed will increase and further on the charge so it will become a once a week top up like petrol going to a station .. obviously the home option will be there for those who have that option which will reduce the demand for the chargers on route freeing them up more

I hope so Paul, I'm a sceptic at the moment not due to being anti-green, just the points I keep repeating.

I'm actually just running the current car into the ground, the VW engine (Skoda) goes forever if looked after, no reason I can't be running it in 2030, which is a monumentally long time in development of the EV, but if the problems are still there, it'll be a new petrol engine as I nearly hit retirement and that'll be me till I keel over

 

[bobmac]

It won't solve the issue of people who live in flats or terraces of course, but it's a start.

I believe the term is called grazing.
You don't go to a garage and chuck in 10 gallons, you go to Tesco and get 50 miles of range (free), then maybe get another 30 miles from Lidl. Or you could fill up at a multi story car park while you spend the day in town, or at the swimming pool, or the curry house, or the golf club, or the office, or wherever you park for half an hour or more. The idea is you'll be charging while you do other stuff.
Yes, the chargers aren't all there yet because there was no demand for them (chicken and the egg) but they are popping up everywhere.
8 years ago, the only EVs available were the Leaf and the Zoe with a range of about 80 miles. Today many cars exceed 250 miles of range. What will we have in 8 years time?

 

[PJ87]

I believe the term is called grazing.
You don't go to a garage and chuck in 10 gallons, you go to Tesco and get 50 miles of range (free), then maybe get another 30 miles from Lidl. Or you could fill up at a multi story car park while you spend the day in town, or at the swimming pool, or the curry house, or the golf club, or the office, or wherever you park for half an hour or more. The idea is you'll be charging while you do other stuff.
Yes, the chargers aren't all there yet because there was no demand for them (chicken and the egg) but they are popping up everywhere.
8 years ago, the only EVs available were the Leaf and the Zoe with a range of about 80 miles. Today many cars exceed 250 miles of range. What will we have in 8 years time?

I would avoid saying its "free" because I can see it any day being changed to charged a flat rate with demand rising

without getting political lets keep it economical it is a true shame that the rules for all car parks to have to have EV chargers has been scrapped and replaced with only new or refurb car parks have to have them

seems like with one hand we are closing the door on petrol car supply but with the other we are throttling the take off of EV to save a bit of cash short term

 

[Deleted member 30522]

8 years ago, the only EVs available were the Leaf and the Zoe with a range of about 80 miles. Today many cars exceed 250 miles of range. What will we have in 8 years time?

I was at a local Community Council meeting a couple years back where they were discussing what should be included in the local development plan. One suggestion from a Local Councilor who as at the meeting (ie the elected sort, not the busy body community councillor sort) was a requirement that all new homes in the area must come with an EV charge point. Cue much laughter and snorting, not a one of them under 70 years old. Suggestion rejected without a seconds discussion, "that's decades away"

In the mid-90s most folks didn't have a computer, now nearly everyone carries one in their pocket, connected to anywhere in the world. Change is rapid, I absolutely grant you that

 

[Fade and Die]

I would avoid saying its "free" because I can see it any day being changed to charged a flat rate with demand rising

without getting political lets keep it economical it is a true shame that the rules for all car parks to have to have EV chargers has been scrapped and replaced with only new or refurb car parks have to have them

seems like with one hand we are closing the door on petrol car supply but with the other we are throttling the take off of EV to save a bit of cash short term

Sat in the Lidl car park on Sunday afternoon waiting for the wife, I saw a guy parking his Skoda Enyaq in one of the two chargers they have in their. He got out the car and put it on charge, then he got into the Kia niro that was plugged into the other charger! as he pulled away i saw in the back window one of those private hire badges, looked again in the back of the Skoda and it also had one. Heard they are doing this at the sports centre too.

 

[PJ87]

Sat in the Lidl car park on Sunday afternoon waiting for the wife, I saw a guy parking his Skoda Enyaq in one of the two chargers they have in their. He got out the car and put it on charge, then he got into the Kia niro that was plugged into the other charger! as he pulled away i saw in the back window one of those private hire badges, looked again in the back of the Skoda and it also had one. Heard they are doing this at the sports centre too.

sport centre is having a few issues atm.. I know out of the 10 chargers only 4 are working I believe (double checked this is correct by the app right now) , however I do like you can see in real time when in use etc

the podpoints at lidl are paid for tho 26p kw

stupid thing is thats all 3 types of the lead attached .. so why would you use the slower Type 2 .. smash it on the CCS 50kw .. id be full and could pop to my mums for a tea lol

think charging for the units is the best way.. free just makes it easy to abuse.. id say a flat 30p seems fair as its cheaper than petrol but also its about what you pay for a day rate at home now days (post april) so people who dont need it will just charge at home.. people who need it arent paying more than others

 

[Imurg]

I was at a local Community Council meeting a couple years back where they were discussing what should be included in the local development plan. One suggestion from a Local Councilor who as at the meeting (ie the elected sort, not the busy body community councillor sort) was a requirement that all new homes in the area must come with an EV charge point. Cue much laughter and snorting, not a one of them under 70 years old. Suggestion rejected without a seconds discussion, "that's decades away"

In the mid-90s most folks didn't have a computer, now nearly everyone carries one in their pocket, connected to anywhere in the world. Change is rapid, I absolutely grant you that

Change CAN be rapid...but not always...

 

[Bdill93]

Im really hoping this 2 years is realistic .. my lease is up in 2


these batteries will be a game changer and will semi solve the issue for those in flats etc because whilst they wont be able to charge at home there will be 150KW chargers at stations like the Shell refill stations they have been waiting.. / gridserve charge points like the one in braintree

the charge speed will increase and further on the charge so it will become a once a week top up like petrol going to a station .. obviously the home option will be there for those who have that option which will reduce the demand for the chargers on route freeing them up more

Very interesting post Bdill

I don't doubt, as bobmac alludes to, that things will improve, they have to, the current battery range and life is unacceptable for many, once those hurdles are overcome things will change. It won't solve the issue of people who live in flats or terraces of course, but it's a start.

If they really could overcome all three issues, plus cost then, I'd be in, purely on style. The Kia EV6 for eg is a stunning motor, and it's not alone. Torn from the restrictions of a petrol/diesel engine and necessary accouterments, you can see designers starting to take the reigns off.

The way he talks about it, it really is a matter of when and not if. Something to do with autocharging batteries - sounds a bit nuts if you ask me.

 

[bobmac]

I'm sticking with octopus as they have a telsa tariff (you can get it if your either a telsa owner or have powerwall plus solar , which is on order)

Another cheap Chinese knock off?